Your advice on a double GLCD MidiBoxLC

MIDIbox HUIs
1

hi all

i was running more or less smoothly with my new project when i suddenly realized it may not be so doable as i ve thought in the beginning, so before spending too much time in something i will never be able to realize here i am asking for your opinion:

planned it is a double CORE double GLCD MidiBoxLC with GPC enabled, specs:

4 joysticks

16 encoders

16 backlit buttons

2 GLCD 128X64

4 tracks lines with faders, EQ buttons, pan and maybe solo and mute

1 4 directional switch with central button

1 jog wheel

4 transport buttons

now i ve understood that with the GPC i can use those 16 encoders and 16 backlit buttons to send and receive normal MIDI message, fine.But , will i be able to have the 2 GLCD to display the values of the 16 encoders? that s all i need, in fact the only LC stuff i need is the 4 directional switch to choose among Live! clips.Also the pseudo autoconfiguration of the 4 channel strips and ttransport buttons is something i d like  to have but not a must, i can configure them manually with MIDI.

Then is this possible or will it be a hell of a work to program the GLCD to display what i want? (i have good will but i am a programming jerk)

Maybe a third CORE just to drive the 4 directional switch and the other 2 with MB64E (and of course a MIDI hub), but still, i have never used LCDs so i don t really know what i can get from them, my plan is to have those pots images displaying the encoders value, 2 rows of 4 pots each display.

best regards

Simone

2

i have never used LCDs so i don t really know what i can get from them, my plan is to have those pots images displaying the encoders value, 2 rows of 4 pots each display.

With LCDs under the MIDIboxLC you’ll only see:

  • track message (the track names or values send from your host)

  • TimeCode/BBS display (data send from your host)

  • Rec/solo/Mute/Select Info of the channels you’ve selected

You can also Display:

  • a VU meter

  • the encoder value (but I think, not the way you would like to)

I fear, if you use the LC only for the display you would be dissapointed …

Also your ‘wish list’ doesn’t match the LC very well:

4 joysticks

16 encoders

16 backlit buttons

2 GLCD 128X64

4 tracks lines with faders, EQ buttons, pan and maybe solo and mute

1 4 directional switch with central button

1 jog wheel

4 transport buttons

Joystick: Depends on what you want to control with them and what type of joystick it is. If it  is a analog one (with pots) you won’t be able to use it with LC (no AIN).

track lines: For each track under LC the only controls supported are:

Rec/Solo/Mute/Select/V-Pot/Fader (with touchsensor). Nothing else! (Especially no EQ buttons per channel! The EQ button is one button for all channels).

ALso, the GPC modus under the LC is a ‘second layer’ of your buttons. The idea behind that feature was, to control other things quickly under a ‘normal’ LC without using another midibox.

Have a closer look in the software of the LC. You’ll quickly notice what is doable and what not.

Maybe a third CORE just to drive the 4 directional switch and the other 2 with MB64E (and of course a MIDI hub)

A good idea, but please don’t forget, that you’ll need another midiport for the third Core. (I don’t really know what you mean with Midi hub. If you mean a another Midi-Interface, it’s ok.)

In general:

You are not far away from the midiboxLC! Please also check your host-software, if you can assign a logic/mackie-controller and if special functions can be assigned to some buttons.

greets

Doc

3

Joystick: Depends on what you want to control with them and what type of joystick it is. If it  is a analog one (with pots) you won’t be able to use it with LC (no AIN).

Can´t he connect the Joysticks on the the J5 port of the second core and disable the MF driver? The only problem I see is what should they control?

Regards

Markus

4

The only problem I see is what should they control?

Yep!

Of course you can use J5. But as long as you don’t have “motorized” joysticks you won’t get the value back after changing the channel or the bank.

It’s true, that you can connect pots without motor to the LC. But (in my eyes) this makes absolutely no sense!

greets

Doc

5

wow i see.. time to redesign the whole thingy..

so i will have to ask.. how difficult will it be to have the encoders values displayed in the lcds in the same style as the LC (knob images with values), in a MB64E?

i decided to go for the 3 cores, on the LC core i will have the option to have some extra buttons for general purpose which is not bad and yes i meant a MIDI port as a MIDI hub, they ve become quite cheap ..

It’s true, that you can connect pots without motor to the LC. But (in my eyes) this makes absolutely no sense!

it does when as in my case i won t use more then 4 channels

thanks this is very important to me!!

regards

simone

edit:

a new question to those with experience on multicore MBs:

does it make more sense to split “symmetrically” the controls on the 2 MB64E cores or would that be better to group encoders on one and buttons on the other?

6

edit:

a new question to those with experience on multicore MBs:

does it make more sense to split “symmetrically” the controls on the 2 MB64E cores or would that be better to group encoders on one and buttons on the other?

I never noticed a difference. I think you can do it both ways.

Don’t know if there is a benefit in one or the other way …

greets

Doc

7

I would suggest connecting all inputs to the same core if possible. This makes the code manageable and maintainable, in case you want to do changes later on you probably only need to modify one core. If the second core only receives display update information it most probably does not need to be modified at all.

You may take a look at the MIDIbox UC in the Wiki: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midibox_uc

Best regards, ilmenator

8

hi

i took the following decision (temporary):

3 CORES of wich 1 to MBLC and 2 to MB64E

the 2 MB64E will have the same inputs and outputs, this for a more easy internal wiring -  they will be merged

a Midi sport 2X2 (or similar) to merge the 2 MB64E and the LC to a single USB output

now, reading http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_link.html i can t really understand if only 1 GLCD can be attached to the last CORE or if it s only a possible setup and it s possible to chain COREs with 1 GLCD each.

as far as i ve understood, writing some code for customized GLCD display settings can be quite hard for one without coding experience but, well, that s what i want and i will give it a go or 2… if anybody can point me out where i d better start from..

here exactly what i want:

there are 2 COREs, in 2 chained MB64E with 2 GLCDs 128X64

each display should display the value and possibly the pots image of 8 encoders, so it would be a little bit like the MBUC (8 values per display) and the MBLC (pots images) but with a MB64E setup (8 encoders)

thanks

simone

9

there are 2 COREs, in 2 chained MB64E with 2 GLCDs 128X64

each display should display the value and possibly the pots image of 8 encoders, so it would be a little bit like the MBUC (8 values per display) and the MBLC (pots images) but with a MB64E setup (8 encoders)

What I don’t get …

If you put the displays on the MB64e, why do you want a LC then? For the channel strip?

The “Track Names” from the host, for example" are transmitted to th LC … not to the MB64E.

But you won’t have a display on the LC? So no track names.

I’m a bit confused about your setup now.

Please don’t forget, that it would be a lot of programming, if you build it that way.

From your initial post:

now i ve understood that with the GPC i can use those 16 encoders and 16 backlit buttons to send and receive normal MIDI message, fine.But , will i be able to have the 2 GLCD to display the values of the 16 encoders? that s all i need, in fact the only LC stuff i need is the 4 directional switch to choose among Live! clips.Also the pseudo autoconfiguration of the 4 channel strips and ttransport buttons is something i d like  to have but not a must, i can configure them manually with MIDI.

Why don’t you use 2 x MIDIboxLC and use some spare buttons under GPC for the 4 directional switch.

You also have two displays then (1 per LC) and 16 Encoders. Maybe I put you a bit in the wrong direction with the extra MB64e.

Almost no programming needed for this configuration.

I don’t know Live! at all, but it seem easier to me, doing it that way.

greets

Doc

(on vacation from tomorrow till 6th August  8) )

10

What I don’t get …

If you put the displays on the MB64e, why do you want a LC then? For the channel strip?

for the 4 direction switch to choose among clips on LIVE!

You also have two displays then (1 per LC) and 16 Encoders. Maybe I put you a bit in the wrong direction with the extra MB64e.

Almost no programming needed for this configuration.

but will i be able to have the values of the 16 encoders displayed on the GLCDs?

DOC: from your first post

With LCDs under the MIDIboxLC you’ll only see:

  • track message (the track names or values send from your host)

  • TimeCode/BBS display (data send from your host)

  • Rec/solo/Mute/Select Info of the channels you’ve selected

You can also Display:

  • a VU meter

  • the encoder value (but I think, not the way you would like to)

I fear, if you use the LC only for the display you would be dissapointed …

Also your ‘wish list’ doesn’t match the LC very well:

that makes me understand that i can t have the GLCD to display all the 8 encoders value at once.. right?

thanks for your support and enjoy your vacation!!!

simone

EDIT: i ve also decided to step forward and try some practical stuff after all this theory: i ve bought the GLCDs and i will cannibalize my old MB64E and hook it up to a 128X64 GLCD and make myself an idea of display on MB!

11

Hm…

As far as I remember, there are some “knobs” displayed on the GLCD. I never used GLCD (ony clcd).

The (midi-)values itself are not shown there. But you can read the tracknames  8) 8)

And you can see the parameter of a VST instrument you’re controlling …

Sorry. If I mislead you.

Best would be, if you try it. Check the GLCDs with an LC first. If you notice, that the LCs have “no go” you can connect the display on the MB64e… but a lot to program then.

greets

Doc

12

thanks DOC

now i got a more clear overview.. today i connected the GLCD but i fear i have some power problem cause my box is supplied by a USB hub.As soon as i ve got it started i will have a look at the LC first, then decide which way to go.

My “fear” is that only one encoder will be displayed per channel (audio track channel, not MIDI channel) , while i will have almost all the encoders in the same channel, they will all be connected to VSTs/AUs plugins, as well as the buttons.On my actual setup, i have a bank of encoders going to 1 track and another to another track, i use it to apply effects to Live! channel tracks, while djing with the laptop or modifying the audio coming from my pal spinning vinyls.That s why i want to have a complete view of all the encoders values at the same time (pots imagine is even better), my laptop display isn t wide enough to allow all the plugins i use to be showed.

thanks!! your help is very appreciated

simone

13

.. i came up with this idea:

there is this C4 module right? it has rows of encoders with LCD on top, that s what i need, so i can have one core master with makie control and th eother slave with C4 emulation is that possible? does it make any sense ?

unfortunately i haven t benn able to get my old core working.. so i ve ordered a new pcb and can t test anyhting for the moment… mike hurry up!!!

simone

14

The C4 is not emulated in the LC (yet). It’s a complete different firmware.

Please also reed carefully, which hosts are supported by the origin C4 (Cubase, for example,  is not supported!)

greets

Doc

15

.. ys i ve dug a little bit in the forum and i ve seen that  somebody has already attempted to find out the protocol but it didn t work out.. too bad .. that s exactly what i was looking for.. well i guess that is what a lot of people is interested in…

so i am still stuck to this point dunno if i cna go on with the pcbs and panel layout before figuring out something about the LCDs settings nad coding.. now i ve also savaged my old MB so i will have to use the Microkontrol for quite a while, btw i was so surprised to realize that the Microkontrol doesn t have the midi feedback feature.. yeah MB rocks ! TK your stuff is better than korg !

i have the feeling that i am not the only one who s trying to create a surface control more oriented towards plugins control than mixing control so perhaps we could join force … write here if anybody is interested, i have plenty of svgs and eagle libraries for all the components but i miss coding skills…

simone

16

..it took me a little while but i ve come up with an “almost final” design:

Faders are 60mm non-motorized

Encoders have a switch.

Buttons are 15X15 mm

Joystick are PS2 style with detached spring

4 direction switch is a Navimec

Jog wheel is 45 mm

Inside a MBLC and a MB64 merged with a MidiSport 2X2 (or similar), it s been designed to be used with Live! as a djing controller in GPC mode with the help of the MB64 for joysticks, tracks EQs and X fading; in LC mode it will be used for production.My hope is to be able to modify the code to have all the 16 encoders values and icons visualized in the GLCDs.

The buttons are all back lit with bicolor (or 2 per button) leds, probably blue and red.

In LC mode the 2 rows of 8 buttons in the bottom, will be solo/mute and rec/select buttons (layer0 and layer1), the 10 buttons on the right will have different functions (layer, GPC/LC, transport, track-plugin, track-send, etc).

Layer0 will be connected to blue leds, layer1 to red leds; that means that if both functions of layer0 and layer1 of the same button will be enabled the color of the button will be purple or something.

The “layer” button will always be either red or blue, decals will help to understand what s going on.

In GPC mode all the buttons will be used as generic midi control.

The 2 rows of 8 buttons will be used to trigger plugins, the others for anything else.

I have a question now: in LC mode i can assign the IDs of the buttons to arbitrary DIN e DOUT pins, in GPC mode i am restricted to the combination of DIN pin1 to DOUT pin1, DIN pin2 to DOUT pin2, etc.; i won t be able to use the second color of the leds, only one assignment per switch is possible.Has anybody thought about this? Has anybody a good hack for it?

Any comment is very welcome, not only about this matter but also about the general idea of the box.For example i am a little bit concerned with the distances among each element, everything is quite tight at the moment.

…speak up!

Simone