Question about Midibox64E and sequencing

Design Concepts
1

Hello, I am currently building a midibox64E.  My box will feature 16 buttons with leds at the bottom to simulate beat boxes and pattern sequencers.  I made myself a nice step sequencer in Max/MSP and I was wondering if it was possible to control the leds on my midibox.  When I start a pattern the leds (onscreen) light up while going through the pattern.  I’d like to know if it would be possible to link my max patch to the midibox and make the physical leds light up at the same time.  I can send any midi message using max.

Thanks,

Nat

2

hi…

Thanks for this question…

although i don’t know the question to your answer…

For a while i thought i was the only one here using MAX/MSP/jitter/nato/softvns…

…it should be possible with a workaround option…(like a (universal) USB-interface (like a pic16c765..) i think)…I’m still trying to figure this out (for something else)…but through the MIDI communication…i’am not sure…

(Maybe it could be done by changing the code in the Pic rightaway …but i am not able to modify the .asm-files at this moment (simply because i don’t understand the language yet)… maybe by sending sysex out of Max/MSP)…(actually i started (but quit) already by making a own “midiox” by Max/MSP, but this was rather difficult…)…

I don’t own a midibox 64E…but am currently making a full SID and a midibox 8 plus (last one for controlling video)…

Like your question…Anxious to know the answer too…

Grtz  Erik

3

I think it’s actually easier than that, however my box is not ready to test this.

If each button on the surface is associated with a controller # and that max sends out the appropriate message for each button, I think the button should light up.  I just need a confirmation by thorsten or someone who made this.

4

I think you are right MB_64 I think already supports this but I have not had any luck making it work, I would like to know tho!  ::slight_smile:

5

What you’re asking for is the Midi Leds option found on vmidibox.

Enable this, and istead of assigning each dout shift register to the apropriate DIN SR, assign it to the MIDI Status rec. for Entry #s you want. Then assign your buttons to controllers that the software leds are sending.

Voila!

(It should work!)

PS. On the 16f firmwares the midi leds function works only on the default internal bank. no banksticks. on 18f it works anywere!

6

And what is the default setting for leds/buttons when before using vmidibox ?

7

Without midi leds option (dout SR -> din SR) :Leds light when button is pushed. *default*

With midi leds (and dout SR ->midi status rec.): Leds light when the apropriate buttons assigned CC is recieved via MIDI..

8

Wow nice, and in midi leds mode, if the button associated to the led sends the corresponding midi message, will the button led light up when pushed ?

Edit :

I’ll try to make my question clearer.

Let’s say I want to control mutes in Logic or Cubase with the controller.  Will the led light up/down if I activate/deactivate the mute onscreen, and will it also light up/down if I press the corresponding button on the surface ?

Thanks

9

Hi Nat,

no, it won’t, because it would be a disturbing behaviour. If the LEDs are assigned to the MIDI status, only the host application can control the LEDs.

Why? Example: for a generic controller the buttons should send an “On event” if pressed, and an “Off event” if depressed (default setup). The host application will take care for the button behaviour internally (common triggering key, toggle/radio buttons, …). If the host application provides an internal banking scheme, the behaviour can change dynamically - switching to different channels or from a Solo to a Mute layer… this all can be controlled by the host application.

Assumed that a single button controls the mute function of track #18 and the MIDIbox would lit the LED internally as well as the host application would control the LED.

You press the button: the LED will lit

The host application sends back the event: the LED will lit

You depress the button: the LED will be turned off

-> but it should stay on!

Another example: 16 buttons are used to select the record channel - the host application is configured in a way that only one channel can be recorded at once. This means that only one of 16 LED should lit (radio-button function).

You press button #2: LED #2 will lit

The host application will turn off the last active LED and turn on LED #2

You depress button #2: LED will be turned off

-> but it should stay on to notify the selected channel!

Also this shows: it doesn’t really make sense to turn on/off a LED from internal if a LED displays the MIDI status.

For your sequencer: everything is in your hand!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

10

Also this shows: it doesn’t really make sense to turn on/off a LED from internal if a LED displays the MIDI status.

For your sequencer: everything is in your hand!

To see if I get this well :

If the leds are assigned to their normal mode (midi status off)

If I press a button that is assigned to the mute on channel one, It will activate this mute in software and the LED assigned to that button will light up only while the button is being pressed down.  In this same mode, if I press the mute onscreen or have some automation triggering it, the LED on the surface won’t react.

Now, if the leds are assigned to midi status.

If I press the button assigned to a mute, it will activate this mute, the led on the surface won’t light up.  If if trigger the mute onscreen, it will light or unlight the LED.

Am I right ?  I’m just trying to understand here, I’m not raving or asking for a new feature :slight_smile:

EDIT :

I guess that if I am wrong in my previous statement, it will then work this way :

If the controller is set to midi status mode,  if I press button 1 which is assigned to mute 1, the button will activate the mute and the sequencer will send this back to the controller which will light up the led.  Now if I press again, the controller will unmute the track and  the sequencer will send back a message to the controller to shut  the led.  If I click onscreen or have some automation, the led will follow the sate of the mute.  That’s sounds more logical to me, in this case, the led is only controlled by midi messages coming from the sequencer.

Sorry, this will eventually get clear in my head :slight_smile:

EDIT 3 :

If I am right about my second statement, then Cubase won’t be able to handle this.  Cubase will only send messages to the controller when you toggle them onscreen.  If I press a button on the controller, cubase won’t send back the status of the button to the controller.  I guess this is a software flaw ?

11

Not sure but I think when you set up your controller in cubase you should be able to select transmit or recieve or both for each button, this might work?

12

If you select transmit, it will transmit only when you tweak something onscreen, not when you tweak the physical control…

13

Yep! cubase transmits only the onscreen clicks!

I’ve got the same problem too!

I wanted to controll mutes+solos in cubase both with MB and mouse but I cant…

so, I’m starting the boards for a mackie clone!!!

14

I’ll see what thorsten thinks about this, but in the event that the flaw comes from Cubase (which I think is the case) I’ll write a nice app in Max to solve this problem, if your interested on having it please send me your config in private.

If they can’t do it then i’ll DO IT MYSELF :stuck_out_tongue:

15

Interesting Nat!

But what is MAX??

This could be solved if the PC sent back anything it recieved..

but maybe it produces loops…

16

It’s a graphical programming interface for midi and audio, very powerful.  I made the coolest beatbox I ever used during the weekend :slight_smile:

17

Hrmpf! I didn’t know that the MIDI remote implementation of Cubase SX is so imperfect…

BUT: It’s funny, I just realized that I already took care for forwarding the received value to the common LED state register:

       btfsc   MB64E_CFG0, MB64E_CFG0_MIDILEDS, BANKED; only if MIDILEDS flag set
        andwf   INDF0, F        ; (MB64E_BUTTON_VALUES_SR0)

        andwf   INDF1, F        ; (MB64E_MBUTTON_VALUES_SR0)

this means:

a) the “MIDI LEDs” flag has another function in the MIOS implementation compared to the PIC16F firmware which has to be documented

a) don’t change the LED map, just enable the “MIDI LEDs” flag with vmidibox or the mk_syx script and it will work :slight_smile:

Best Regards, Thorsten.

18

Thanks Thorsten,

But that won’t work with Cubase since it doesn’t send back the data ?

EDIT :

About the midi remote implementation of Cubase,

it’s worse than you can think, they totally broke the thing in SX 2 / Nuendo 2, you can’t control pan or EQ anymore which is ridiculous…  

19

TK did it once again!

This way it DOES work!

just enable MIDI Leds!

no reason to fiddle around with MAX Nat!

Now cubase mixer is working perfectly both with mouse and midibox!

Thanks for the feature too Thorsten!

Ps.this doesn’t mean I’m not starting with the mackie clone!  ;D

20

Wow nice, would you mind explaining how it works Thorsten ? :slight_smile: and thanks !!