Utterly lost

Testing/Troubleshooting
1

I’m not having much luck finding the info I need to get from having built the hardware and loading MIOS 1.6, by all appearances succesfully, to having any indication things are working.

I have a core hooked up and running, I get :

000029B1   9  XXX    F0  Buffer:     8 Bytes   System Exclusive      

SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7

at power up.  I have 2 DIN Modules chained without anything hooked to them like buttons or encoders.

For kicks, and because I wanted to see if anything would happen, I tried loading the MB64 2.2 app.  Just after I did, data seemed to just randomly stream out of it, looking at MIDIOX input monitor.  I’m wondering if this is a good or bad sign, and if someone can point me to info as to how I can test things.  Hooking up a button or encoder didn’t sem to do anything.

I’m kinda lost at this point, and don’t know what I need to do next.  Maybe someone can help me out.

Thanks!

2

the f0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7  is the request for mios upload. mios must be uploaded within 2 seconds of recieving this request. I don’t rememver if this persists after mios upload, but i do not get it from my sid(after sid app upload.Did you try disconecting the dins to see if that’s where the random data is coming from?

3

I have MIOS uploaded.  When I boot up, that’s what I get, nothing else.  Before I did that, I would get a string every second or so until I uploaded MIOS.

ok, if I have my DIN with encoders hooked to j9 of the core and I want to test it.  Is there an app that I can load to see if its working?

There’s not much info I can find for this stage of the production.  Is there anything showing specifically how to hook up the encoders physically to the DIN?  I think I have it correct, but maybe not.

The main thing is to see if the boards are working.

Oh yeah.  Is the MIOS NG version that’s coming soon going to eliminate the need to do custom coding and compiling.  Just trying to understand.

4

Ok, if Mios is loaded correctly you should get that string once only. as for encoders, there is an example on the din page.(it is a link) And of course I don’t know about NG…but i think that’s the idea.

5

I had some luck last night.  I realized I wasn’t giving the encoders any power, so hooked up my encoders correctly, I think, and got some MIDI action although not exactly what I was expecting.  

I have my encoders all assembled on a panel, with one common wire for + power connected to all of the encoders from the DIN, sort of like a ground wire would be.  Then I hook each encoder to the DIN per the schematics.  If I hook this common + wire to a +5v pin on the DIN, the channel 1 encoder seems to function as I would expect it to.  but none of the others do anything even though they are hooked up the same exact way.  This might be a software issue.  I suppose it’s impossible for anyone to say (I have the MB64 2.2 loaded).

The wierd thing is that if I hook up the + line to the 5th pin on j4 of the DIN the way the schematic shows, turning the working encoder gives me a whole lot of different wierd data in MIDIOX, that doesn’t look right.  The only thing that seemed to give me the results I’m expecting is hooking it to a free, +5v pin, like on j2 of the DIN.

I also tried my second DIN, with buttons attached, and that seemed to work in a similar way, with only 1 button working even though many are installed identically.

Any help is appreciated.

6

Why not trying MIDIbox64E?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

7

I did that.  The results are…different.  But basically the same.  

Maybe the problem is something else.  The schematics show that every pair of encoders connected to j3-j10 has a seperate common connection to the Vs pin. So  encoders #3 & #4 are connected to the Vs pin of j3, while encoders #8 & #7 are connected to Vs on j5, basically giving each pair of encoders a seperate connection to the DINx4.  Is this necessary, or can all of the encoders be driven by 1 Vs pin on any j3-j10?  This is the way my encoders are wired, so maybe it’s the problem.  I bought it already assembled from Pay_C, so assumed that was how it could be done.

8

jimminy…

the encoders dont go to any +. only din inputs and gnd…

I think u got the encoder panel from me no? If so, the single wire is a comman gnd of all the encoders and is to be wired to any gnd pin (eg: on din or core). The encoder’s each have they’re own 2 pin plug as I remember - just connect that to the din inputs as in the encoder hook-up pdfs…pretty straightforward so no need to lost!

best

Dan

9

Sorry D2k!!!  I got confused.  

I tried hooking up that way, because that was what I assumed when I looked at it.  But I got no joy whatsoever so thought encoders might work very differently.  Maybe I have some soldering issues then, but I did 2 DINx4’s and they behave exactly the same way.  Is there some way to test the DIN’s with a multimeter?

When I hook that ground (common) wire from the panel to + voltage, one of the encoders appears to be working perfectly, but none of the others.  I guess I’ll try doing it the way you suggest again, and see if I get anything this time.  I should get a system exclusive events at the MIDI input when turning the encoders, right?  Sometimes I get CC messages, but in a pretty messy way, leading me to think this isn’t what I should be seeing.

BTW, I didn’t realize until a few days ago that one of the rows of encoders on that panel have push switches!  how cool, that was a really great deal you gave me, thanks again.  I still haven’t figured out what I’m going to utilize that for though.  Could be anything, But what?  Indeed, what…

10

okay…

what test firmware are u using? Not the ‘single’ encoder driver app I hope? ;p

I used and tested those encoders fine with enc_example3_v1_3 - all worked so ur connex must be a-miss…

When I hook that ground (common) wire from the panel to + voltage,

when u say +, u mean +5V right? (Vdd) - that’s just wrong! wrong, wrong, wrong…;p

keep faffling

Dan

11

When I load the enc3…software, I get zip, nothing.

I don’t really know what to test next.  If both DIN’s act the same, and the core appears to be working.  I guess all I can do is double-check connections.

12

try and post some pics if u can

13

Sorry, no digital camera.  Maybe I’l borrow one from work on Monday.

I uploaded the midibox 64e v2.2 main file.  I hooked 1 encoder up to j3 on the DIN.  This is what I get when I turn the encoder 1 click (detented).

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT              

000D4953   9  –     90    30    00    1  C  3 Note Off              

000D4954   9  –     91    30    00    2  C  3 Note Off              

000D4955   9  –     92    30    00    3  C  3 Note Off              

000D4956   9  –     93    30    00    4  C  3 Note Off              

000D4957   9  –     94    30    00    5  C  3 Note Off              

000D4958   9  –     95    30    00    6  C  3 Note Off              

000D4959   9  –     96    30    00    7  C  3 Note Off              

000D495A   9  –     97    30    00    8  C  3 Note Off              

000D495B   9  –     98    30    00    9  C  3 Note Off              

000D495B   9  –     99    30    00   10  C  3 Note Off              

000D495C   9  –     9A    30    00   11  C  3 Note Off              

000D495D   9  –     9B    30    00   12  C  3 Note Off              

000D495E   9  –     9C    30    00   13  C  3 Note Off              

000D495F   9  –     9D    30    00   14  C  3 Note Off              

000D4960   9  –     9E    30    00   15  C  3 Note Off              

000D4961   9  –     9F    30    00   16  C  3 Note Off              

000D4962   9  –     90    54    00    1  C  6 Note Off              

000D4963   9  –     91    54    00    2  C  6 Note Off              

000D4964   9  –     92    54    00    3  C  6 Note Off              

000D4965   9  –     93    54    00    4  C  6 Note Off              

000D4966   9  –     94    54    00    5  C  6 Note Off              

000D4967   9  –     95    54    00    6  C  6 Note Off              

000D4968   9  –     96    54    00    7  C  6 Note Off              

000D4969   9  –     97    54    00    8  C  6 Note Off              

000D496A   9  –     90    3C    00    1  C  4 Note Off              

000D496B   9  –     91    3C    00    2  C  4 Note Off              

000D496C   9  –     92    3C    00    3  C  4 Note Off              

000D496D   9  –     93    3C    00    4  C  4 Note Off              

000D496E   9  –     94    3C    00    5  C  4 Note Off              

000D496F   9  –     95    3C    00    6  C  4 Note Off              

000D4970   9  –     96    3C    00    7  C  4 Note Off              

000D4972   9  –     97    3C    00    8  C  4 Note Off              

000D4972   9  –     98    3C    00    9  C  4 Note Off              

000D4973   9  –     99    3C    00   10  C  4 Note Off              

000D4973   9  –     9A    3C    00   11  C  4 Note Off              

000D4974   9  –     9B    3C    00   12  C  4 Note Off              

000D4975   9  –     9C    3C    00   13  C  4 Note Off              

000D4977   9  –     9D    3C    00   14  C  4 Note Off              

000D4977   9  –     9E    3C    00   15  C  4 Note Off              

000D4978   9  –     9F    3C    00   16  C  4 Note Off              

000D4979   9  –     90    48    00    1  C  5 Note Off              

000D497A   9  –     91    48    00    2  C  5 Note Off              

000D497B   9  –     92    48    00    3  C  5 Note Off              

000D497D   9  –     93    48    00    4  C  5 Note Off              

000D497D   9  –     94    48    00    5  C  5 Note Off              

000D497E   9  –     95    48    00    6  C  5 Note Off              

000D497F   9  –     96    48    00    7  C  5 Note Off              

000D4980   9  –     97    48    00    8  C  5 Note Off              

000D4981   9  –     98    48    00    9  C  5 Note Off              

000D4982   9  –     99    48    00   10  C  5 Note Off              

000D4983   9  –     9A    48    00   11  C  5 Note Off              

000D4984   9  –     9B    48    00   12  C  5 Note Off              

000D4985   9  –     9C    48    00   13  C  5 Note Off              

000D4986   9  –     9D    48    00   14  C  5 Note Off              

000D4987   9  –     9E    48    00   15  C  5 Note Off              

000D4988   9  –     9F    48    00   16  C  5 Note Off              

Doesn’t look right to me.  If I turn it the other way, I get much the same, but as note on events.

Hope this helps illustrate a bit until I can get pics.

Oh, one question.  The center pin on those encoders is the common, right?

14

Oh, one question.  The center pin on those encoders is the common, right?

yes - as i said, the ground on the encoders are all tied together (u can see this) and the single wire that comes from the star gnd point goes to any gnd pin on DIN/CORE/Whatever…then the enocders themselves just go to the 2 dinputs - I hope ur not connect them to 1 gnd pin / 1 input pin of the DIN…

really is straightforward tho so until I can see what u’ve done and how uve connected shit I got no idea really…

15

maybe tonight I can get a picture.  what you’re saying is what I thought, and how I’ve hooked things up.  I’m asking because, since it doesn’t seem to work, I can’t be sure my assumtions are correct.

I did some testing last night for voltages and I think there may be some problem there in that I have some higher voltage readings at some points than I think I should be seeing, mabe this screwing things up.  However, I would think that if I have a short somewhere, I would have bigger problems.

Oh well, thanks for the help

16

From your logfile it can be assumed that a single input triggers a lot of MIDI events, so it seems that either RCLK or SCLK is not correctly connected - check your modules for short circuits - check especially the spacing between the tracks.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

17

Space between tracks?  Does anyone know what this means exactly?  And SCLK and RCLK, what does this refer to?

Am I going to get banned from this board for my shear unparalelled ignorance?

18

Spacing between tracks means the clearance between those funny copper lines. It makes sense to visually check if they are too near together (high risk for shorts). RCLK and SCLK are the clock signals between J1:SC -> J2:SC and J1:RC -> J2:RC of the DINX4 module. See also the schematic http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dinx4.pdf

Sometimes people reported exactly the same problem, and the reason was mostly a short circuit between these tracks. So maybe this is something which could be improved in the PCB layout to reduce the failure rate…

Best Regards, Thorsten.

19

Lemme first say I really appreciate the help.  I would have given up by now without it!

Here are a few images that might help illustrate what I have going.

The first is the core & dinx4 hooked up with power, MIDI, and 1 encoder.  The quality isn’t very good, but hopefully good enough to see thenimportant stuff.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8279269

The second is the power up message in MIDIOX.  I think this is correct.  I have MIOS 1.6 uploaded, and MB16e loaded too.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8279195

The last image is what I get when rotating the detented encoder one click, then back one click.  The note on messages are one click and the note off are the other click.  If I rotate twice, two clicks the same direction, it looks the same, alternating between note on and off.  If I hook up a single button I get much the same, note on(or off) when pushed, the opposite when released.

http://www.villagephotos.com/viewpubimage.asp?id_=8279196

Also, J3 is the only port I can hook to and get any MIDI activity.  The others seem dead.  I’ve checked over the soldering and don’t see anything wrong except quite a bit of excess flux which I scraped away as best I could.  No solder bridging that I can see.

The only other thing I can see that isn’t ideal is that the power supply seems to be pretty hot, reading +10V or better even though the transformer says its output should be +7V.  Could this be affecting anything?

Thanks again.

20

Hi,

you’ve connected the encoder to the pins which are normaly used for the menu navigation. I guess that you haven’t adapted the MB64E setup to your hardware, no?

The problem is that I currently haven’t time to explain the setup detailed enough, so maybe somebody else can help? It would especially be helpful if somebody could write down some step-by-step instructions for the MIDIbox configuration, because it seems that the comments in the source files are too confusing for non-programmers.

Jimminy: in the meantime you should try the MIDIO128 application. If this application sends multiple MIDI events with a single push on a button, you’ve definitely a hardware problem. If it sends a single event, you’ve a configuration problem.

Best Regards, Thorsten.