# Upcoming MBHP\_MF\_NG module **URL:** \ **Category:** MIDIbox HUIs\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832 "2010-12-22T13:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/1 "2010-12-22T13:58:35Z")
In the last days I worked on a major MBHP\_MF update, mainly triggered by Screaming Rabbit who gave me a big package of different Alps faders for free! šŸ™‚ Design Targets: - find a solution to handle high-quality faders like Alps K faders with ā€œcorelessā€ motors - find a solution for MBHP\_CORE\_LPC17 which doesnā€™t deliver stable enough ADC conversion results due to the reduced 3.3V voltage range - find a solution for MBHP\_CORE\_LPC17 which cannot handle touch sensors properly without heavy CPU load (resp. without an additional external device or microcontroller) - find a solution which is compatible with PIC based projects for best usability - find a solution which is DIY friendly and doesnā€™t require additional gear (e.g. chip programmer) for something which isnā€™t part of the MBHP yet - find a solution which can be easily tested and troubleshooted (no need to learn new processes) Following circuit is the result: [http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp\_mf\_ng.pdf](http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_mf_ng.pdf) - a dedicated PIC controller controls the motorfaders directly - it can be accessed via MIDI (only) - this allows standalone usage, cascading (to chain multiple modules), and the re-use of existing infrastructure such as MIOS, MIOS Studio and MIOS Bootloader - the module can either be connected to a PC directly, or controlled from a second PIC or STM32 or LPC17 (note that MBHP\_CORE\_LPC17 has a third and even a fourth MIDI IO port at TTL level so that the available two MIDI IO pairs are still free) - native support of various protocols (e.g. PitchBender, CCs, even Logic Control and Mackie Control Emulation) - support for 8 touch sensors - instead of TC4427 Iā€™m using L293D now - not at least because of the integrated diodes. - due to the direct motor control connections, the PIC is now able to generate PWM with 50 uS steps for improved motor speed control while a motor is moved - since the firmware is dedicated for this task, there was enough memory free to integrate advanced features, such as runtime-calibration and motor position tracing Two snapshots of the prototype - currently Iā€™ve only tested the circuit with high-quality K Faders, which were not properly controllable with MBHP\_MF\_V1 Meanwhile PCBs are available (layout created by SmashTV - thank you!!! šŸ™‚ ) MIOS Studio got a new configuration tool: Especially the calibration is much easier now, not at least because of the new motor position tracing feature: Currently following modes are planned: [\*] PitchBender Chn#1..#8 [\*] PitchBender Chn#9..#16 [\*] CC#07 Chn#1..#8 [\*] CC#07 Chn#9..#16 [\*] CC#16..#23 Chn#1 [\*] CC#24..#31 Chn#1 [\*] Faked Logic Control [\*] Faked Logic Control Extension [\*] Faked Mackie Control [\*] Faked Mackie Control Extension There is no real need to add more modes, considered that MIDI events can be mapped on the host PC and/or from another microcontroller (like Core32) which uses MBHP\_MF\_V3 as a companion. By using Pitchbender events, the highest resolution (10bit) is available. More about this topic (e.g. test of different motorfaders) after holidays. šŸ™‚ Best Regards, Thorsten. ![mbhp_mf_v3_proto1.jpg](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/3X/5/d/5dfee88daebed1ed1791cfe0c92e8881d4101626.jpeg) ![mbhp_mf_v3_proto2.jpg](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/3X/a/f/af97971290852fc3f0490927dac8026c17d184e7.jpeg) ![mbhp_mf_ng_final1.jpg](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/2X/a/a688e93448db3bff21abf8ad6dfa7fcd6e6c13b5.jpeg) ![mbhp_mf_v3_config.png](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/3X/7/7/77765629d7b84dfc7e748637b038c6a9910f3d2a.png) ![mbhp_mf_v3_calib.png](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/3X/5/b/5b8a10b42d3db2d682dbc99df354a4b3826adb1a.png) ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeye](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/hawkeye/32/223_2.png) [@Hawkeye](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Hawkeye)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/2 "2010-12-22T22:05:15Z")
That looks very, very nice šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![phunk](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@phunk](https://forum.midibox.org/u/phunk)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/3 "2010-12-23T09:06:14Z")
:frantics: :frantics: yeah! ---
**Author:** ![findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/u/findbuddha)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/4 "2011-01-01T14:57:15Z")
TK, Iā€™ve got some Core8 and MF PCBs that were to be used for this purpose. Can I solder the Core8 board as usual? Should it be possible to fit the new circuit into the old MF PCB? Thanks šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/5 "2011-01-01T16:00:44Z")
When you compare the MBHP\_MF\_V2 schematic with MBHP\_MF, you will notice that the motor control pins are now directly connected to the PIC. The same can be done with the old module - just remove the two 74HC595 chips and use a 16-wire ribbon cable for direct connections between MBHP\_CORE and the TC4427 based H-bridges. You should also add the status LED, and a 470 Ohm resistor between the MF potentiometer (P1) and ground for improved voltage control. Note that the MBHP\_MF\_V2 firmware hasnā€™t been released yet, it needs some more work until it will run perfectly. If nothing unexpected happens I will release it in ca. 2..3 weeks Best Regards, Thorsten. ---
**Author:** ![Skunk](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@Skunk](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Skunk)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/6 "2011-01-01T17:04:24Z")
Hi Thorsten, what about the noise of the motors during movement, the accuracy and the speed? Same as before? Cheers, Andreas ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/7 "2011-01-01T22:57:55Z")
I havenā€™t compared this with my RSAON11M9 faders yet, but Iā€™ve the impression that the new method leads to better results, not at least because the increased PWM resolution allows more exact control over the speed so that probably \*any\* fader will reach the target position w/o overshoots. The ā€œsineā€ function of the MBFM tool moves all faders concurrently with slow target position changes -\> this is the noise test -\> this allows to optimize parameters for less noise. Canā€™t say more about this topic yet - after this posting I stopped the development, and I will continue in some days. Thereafter more details. Best Regards, Thorsten. ---
**Author:** ![Axel](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@Axel](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Axel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/8 "2011-01-04T16:51:16Z")
Hi Thorsten, havenƂĀ“t been around here for some ā€¦eh.. years, mainly because my LC emulations are still working nearly perfectly and do what they are supposed to do (help making music?!). Once in a while i have problems with some faders moving slowly or not completely reliable, so this new development could reanimate my former Midiboxeritis. To avoid sleepless nights thinking about it, i have a quick questions right now: Is it necessary to use the new STM32 Core to provide the Midi I/O for the new MF Core? Best regards, Axel ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/9 "2011-01-04T19:34:01Z")
Hi Axel, welcome back! šŸ™‚ By enabling the MIDI merger it will be possible to chain MBHP\_MF\_V3 with a common core module. The ā€œFaked Logic/Mackie Controlā€ Mode will handle the Pitch Bender Events. So: a Core32 wonā€™t be required, you can re-use your existing hardware and just only have to replace the MBHP\_MF\_V1 module. Best Regards, Thorsten. ---
**Author:** ![Lorcan](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/lorcan/32/11_2.png) [@Lorcan](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Lorcan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/10 "2011-01-05T08:44:36Z")
Very impressive ! The pcb layout looks very tidy, even in prototype form. Itā€™s great that you still invest your time in this project. Apart from Tango (very expensive) and Euphonix Studio (not too sturdy looking and Mac only) controllers, there hasnā€™t been much innovation on the commercial side, so I guess this is even a bigger incentive to build one yourself. Out of curiosity, may I ask what type of algorithm you use for tracking and control of the fader ? I guess you use of some kind of regularization of the control curve, or movement / speed prediction, so the motor speed is as smooth as possible. I know very little about automation theory (more about dsp) but as I said, Iā€™m curious Cheers, Lorcan ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/11 "2011-01-08T21:14:39Z")
Basically Iā€™m using the same algorithm that I described under [http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp\_mf.html](http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_mf.html) The biggest differences compared to the previous solution: - Duty cycle has much higher resolution for more precise motor speed control - Duty cycle depends on distance between current and target position -\> than closer the target position, than slower the motor - separate values for upward/downward movements, now for each motorfader individually. This is important to ensure that even after years all motors are running synchronously, because some get a bit slower, some others are still fast (the same problem which probably Alex noticed) Following picture shows how precisely a fader can be positioned now This is a ALPS RSAON11M9 fader at 5V. It overshoots the target position at t=100 mS, but can be precisely repositioned at t=180 mS to exactly the middle value (512) Such a control wasnā€™t possible with the old solution. For those who prefer slow faders: just reduce the Max Duty Value šŸ™‚ Best Regards, Thorsten. ![mbhp_mf_v3_calib_repos.png](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/2X/9/9eabe73d428b0968b6f14766133f03f4c26596fb.png) ![mbhp_mf_v3_calib_norepos.png](https://forum.midibox.org/uploads/default/original/2X/0/0271800a62e37f93a52e882da5623de028ce8e2d.png) ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeye](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/hawkeye/32/223_2.png) [@Hawkeye](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Hawkeye)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/12 "2011-01-09T02:09:42Z")
looks very nice, especially the time-graphs! /got to stop reading this thread, says my wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Casey\_Pittman](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/casey_pittman/32/267_2.png) [@Casey\_Pittman](https://forum.midibox.org/u/Casey_Pittman)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/13 "2011-02-07T14:47:37Z")
Greetings! Iā€™ve been doing a lot of reading about the midibox project and I think Iā€™m about ready to take some steps. Iā€™m particularly interested in this new MF V3 board. Any further progress made as of yet? -Casey ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/14 "2011-02-07T23:26:33Z")
I havenā€™t continued yet as this is a low-prio project for me. My Core32 based MBLC is already stuffed with a module, communication goes through a STM32 module via USB to Logic Pro - it works perfectly. I built a second module for testing different faders, but havenā€™t found the time yet to run the tests and to find + document the best calibration values. Also a PCB layout is not available yetā€¦ However, if anybody wants to build this on a veroboard: just do it! The schematic is final, the firmware is released [in the repository](http://svnmios.midibox.org/listing.php?repname=svn.mios&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fapps%2Fcontrollers%2Fmbhp_mf_v3%2F) and I can send you an MIOS Studio update for calibration (or you can [compile it by yourself](http://svnmios.midibox.org/listing.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Ftools%2Fmios_studio%2F)). Best Regards, Thorsten. ---
**Author:** ![findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/u/findbuddha)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/15 "2011-02-14T10:32:27Z")
> (or you can [compile it by yourself](http://svnmios.midibox.org/listing.php?repname=svn.mios32&path=%2Ftrunk%2Ftools%2Fmios_studio%2F)). Anyone know how to compile MIOS Studio on windows? Using JUCE 1.52, VC++ Express 2010, I get this sort of fail: ``` 1>------ Build started: Project: mios_studio, Configuration: Release Win32 ------ 1> MbCvTool.cpp 1>..\..\src\gui\MbCvTool.cpp(94): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::juce_wchar' to 'unsigned char', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\MbCvTool.cpp(145): error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'juce::TableHeaderComponent' to 'juce::TableHeaderComponent *' 1> No user-defined-conversion operator available that can perform this conversion, or the operator cannot be called 1>..\..\src\gui\MbCvTool.cpp(741): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'size_t', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\MbCvTool.cpp(742): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'int', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\MbCvTool.cpp(751): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'const juce::uint32', possible loss of data 1> Midio128Tool.cpp 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(145): warning C4244: 'initializing' : conversion from 'double' to 'int', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(150): warning C4244: 'initializing' : conversion from 'double' to 'int', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(211): error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'juce::TableHeaderComponent' to 'juce::TableHeaderComponent *' 1> No user-defined-conversion operator available that can perform this conversion, or the operator cannot be called 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(412): error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'juce::TableHeaderComponent' to 'juce::TableHeaderComponent *' 1> No user-defined-conversion operator available that can perform this conversion, or the operator cannot be called 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(975): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'size_t', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(976): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'int', possible loss of data 1>..\..\src\gui\Midio128Tool.cpp(985): warning C4244: 'argument' : conversion from 'juce::int64' to 'const juce::uint32', possible loss of data ========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== ``` JUCE and the JUCE example progs build successfully šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/philetaylor/32/126_2.png) [@philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/u/philetaylor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/16 "2011-02-14T17:44:55Z")
Hi. I havenā€™t build the latest SVN for Windows for a while (I usually only build it when TK wants to release a new version). Those errors are all in the latest additions and usually just require specific casting of the variables as GCC is a bit more tolerant than VC++ I will try and build it tomorrow and update SVN. Cheers Phil ---
**Author:** ![philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/philetaylor/32/126_2.png) [@philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/u/philetaylor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/17 "2011-02-14T18:09:06Z")
If you update your SVN repository, you should see a new build directory for VS2010 which will hopefully work for you! Cheers Phil ---
**Author:** ![findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@findbuddha](https://forum.midibox.org/u/findbuddha)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/18 "2011-02-15T01:07:42Z")
Thanks. The warnings are gone, but I still get the errors about TableHeaderComponent ---
**Author:** ![philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/philetaylor/32/126_2.png) [@philetaylor](https://forum.midibox.org/u/philetaylor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:07am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/19 "2011-02-15T08:07:31Z")
Try Juce 1.50 (as that is the recommended version). Juce seems to change prototypes between versions so it is likely that the definition for TableHeaderComponent has changed! Cheers Phil ---
**Author:** ![T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/user_avatar/forum.midibox.org/t.k/32/7_2.png) [@T.K](https://forum.midibox.org/u/T.K)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832/20 "2011-02-15T08:09:48Z")
Meanwhile itā€™s Juce 1.51 Once I update to a new version and change the source codes accordingly, previous Juce releases wonā€™t work anymore. Best Regards, Thorsten. [Next page](https://forum.midibox.org/t/upcoming-mbhp-mf-ng-module/14832.md?page=2)