SwinSID questions

JaseM · August 28, 2009, 1:41am

Hey, I had a couple of questions regarding the SwinSID and it’s use in the Midibox SID.

I was curious if anyone has built the hybrid one, and if they could remember the parts list. I’m trying to get the parts together to make one and I’m having trouble translating the german list and getting the parts. I’ve been able to figure out everything except the two smaller ICs. I was going to make a list of parts and mouser catalog numbers. I can post what I find if anyone is interested.

The second question is how to hookup the SwinSID to the Core. Do you still need a SID module? If so, do you just use the IC socket on the SwinSID board to plug into the SID module?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, I tried looking and couldn’t find an answer.

nebula · August 28, 2009, 3:14am

I don’t know if anybody in this forum other than TK has experimented with SwinSID.

I’ve been really interested in giving it a go. I really like what I’ve heard - it has a sound of its own.

I can’t really answer your first question, but as for the second question: SwinSID is pin-compatible with the SID IC. So you need a MBHP SID module, and the SwinSID board plugs into its IC socket.

An MBHP SwinSID module to house all the SwinSID components on a single MBHP compatible board would arguably be more elegant, but it doesn’t exist yet.

nILS · August 28, 2009, 8:42am

An MBHP SwinSID module to house all the SwinSID components on a single MBHP compatible board would arguably be more elegant, but it doesn’t exist yet.

Does exist, but hasn’t been tested as of yet. Due to pressure from the North *winkAtFlemming* this is likely to change soon though.

Flemming · August 28, 2009, 11:51am

*winkAtFlemming*

[me=Flemming]blushes[/me]

nILS, you dirty boy you…

It’s true though, i’m also in love with the SwinSID, mostly because of its FM, it’s sexy drumsounds, it’s lovely resonating filter and it’s internal reverb. But as i have no real life reference yet, i am also going by the various soundclips and scattered info i found.

A dedicated Swin-SID module PCB would be so sexy!! *winkAtnILS*

JaseM · August 28, 2009, 1:38pm

Thanks for the answers. I’ll post what translations/Parts numbers I’ve found so far when I get home.

Here’s a link to the assembly instructions and parts list new SwinSID hybrid board if anyone is interested:

http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/files/SwinSID_How2Build.pdf

Theta_Frost · August 28, 2009, 8:04pm

Hmmm… somewhere on ucapps it said 1 core could handle 2 SIDs and 1 swinSID… I wonder if that has been tried yet. ???

Flemming · August 28, 2009, 8:12pm

Actually - it states that 2 SIDs and 2 SwinSIDs can be controlled from 1 core

From the SwinSID review in the MB-SID manual, by TK:

“Note that thanks to the interface compatibility, it is possible to control two MBHP_SID modules, and one Stereo-SwinSID module from the same MBHP_CORE in parallel!”

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_swinsid.html

Matrix12x · August 28, 2009, 11:06pm

How many people have tried it yet?

Theta_Frost · August 29, 2009, 12:06am

Actually - it states that 2 SIDs and 2 SwinSIDs can be controlled from 1 core

From the SwinSID review in the MB-SID manual, by TK:

“Note that thanks to the interface compatibility, it is possible to control two MBHP_SID modules, and one Stereo-SwinSID module from the same MBHP_CORE in parallel!”

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_swinsid.html

My bad! Imagine a monster SID with 8 SIDS and 8 SwinSID’s!

JaseM · August 29, 2009, 2:39am

OK, here’s the parts list and the links to www.reichelt.de from the original parts list (link is in my previous post).

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=B324;GROUPID=3153;ARTICLE=12332;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

WIMA Folienkondensator, RM 5mm, 100nF = WIMA Capacitor, 5mm 100nf

20% Tolerance Polyester

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=B324;GROUPID=3153;ARTICLE=12343;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

WIMA Folienkondensator, RM 5mm, 470nF = WIMA Capacitor, 5mm 470nf

20% Tolerance Polyester

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=B1214;GROUPID=3078;ARTICLE=11403;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

Metallschichtwiderstand 1,00 K-Ohm = 100k Resistor

1% Tolerance, 1/4 watt

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=B42;GROUPID=3174;ARTICLE=13698;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

Quarzoszillator, 24,00 MHz = 24 Mhz Crystal Oscillator

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=A363;GROUPID=2959;ARTICLE=47365;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

ATMega AVR-RISC-Controller, PLCC-44

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=A2231;GROUPID=2930;ARTICLE=3139;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

74HC 139 = Switching IC (IC-Schaltung)

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C134;GROUPID=3218;ARTICLE=14701;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

IC-Fassung, 44-polig, PLCC = IC socket, 44-pin PLCC

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C131;GROUPID=3215;ARTICLE=8221;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

IC-Sockel, 28-polig, superflach, gedreht, vergold = IC socket, 28-pin, super slim, twisted, gold-plated

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C131;GROUPID=3215;ARTICLE=8231;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

IC-Sockel, 8-polig, superflach, gedreht, vergold = IC socket, 8-pin, super slim, twisted, gold-plated

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C131;GROUPID=3215;ARTICLE=4427;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

IC-Adapterleiste, 32-polig, einreihig, RM 2,54 = IC Adapter Bar, 32-pin, single row, RM 2.54

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http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=444;GROUP=C141;GROUPID=3220;ARTICLE=19504;START=0;SORT=user;OFFSET=16;SID=28knTHsKwQARwAABllfKY2037b23cee51b55441657670edf2cf55

36pol. Stiftleiste, gerade, RM 2,54 = 36-pin. Pin header, straight, RM 2.54

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I’m having a bit of trouble finding exact matches for some of the parts. For example, the capacitors I found at Mouser only had a max tolerance of 10%, not the 20 from the original site. I’m not sure if that matters, but better safe than sorry. I’ll post the links for other suppliers of the parts as soon as I find them.

ilmenator · August 31, 2009, 9:54am

… the capacitors I found at Mouser only had a max tolerance of 10%, not the 20 from the original site…

The less tolerance the better. They are perfectly okay in terms of tolerance!

bbow73 · January 31, 2012, 9:11pm

is there a hardware interface for the SwinSID, like the MB-6582?

Or just something with knobs?

ilmenator · January 31, 2012, 10:10pm

is there a hardware interface for the SwinSID, like the MB-6582?

Or just something with knobs?

You do realize that the SwinSID is a replacement for the SID chip, right? That means if you can control a SID chip with a MIDIbox SID, so can you control a SwinSID. Whether the SwinSID physically fits into the sockets of an MB-6582 board is a different question, though.

technobreath · February 2, 2012, 8:29pm

Yeah, the 6582 is a pretty tight design… I also has been wanting to try a swinsid, but ill wait some time though, but it is nice to know there exists a diy replacement in case the real deal market is dried up and the sids in my beloved synths stop working hehe.

m00dawg · February 10, 2012, 7:29pm

SwinSID comes pretty close to replacing the functions of a real SID, but I rather like to think of it as a different option, or a solution for your C64 so it can still make sound after your “borrowed” its SID chip

Where SwinSID shines, I think, is in the extra support of the MBSID firmware to open up the extra waveforms and things. That plus being able to have a different sound to augment real SIDs with. When the market truly dries up though, this will be an option, but I wonder if the SID on an FPGA style projects might not be more accurate.

technobreath · February 16, 2012, 9:43pm

FPGA? Im not exactly sure what it is, but are you talking about actually logically “building” a sid from scratch? Would be extremely cool. Would be more like a modern clone than firmware emulation…

It’s been a while since I had a look at swinsid, but the thing that annoyed me then was the lack of audio in for filtering… I guess this is because of firmware complexity, cost, and hardware limitations?

m00dawg · February 16, 2012, 9:53pm

FPGA? Im not exactly sure what it is, but are you talking about actually logically “building” a sid from scratch? Would be extremely cool. Would be more like a modern clone than firmware emulation…

Field Programmable Gate Array. It’s basically a bunch of logic gates that can be arranged and programmed (via a hardware language) to do something. It’s about the closest you can get to fabbing a chip and, as a result, supposedly the FPGA-SIDs are the most accurate. Not small and not really cheap considering the cost of the real thing.

It’s been a while since I had a look at swinsid, but the thing that annoyed me then was the lack of audio in for filtering… I guess this is because of firmware complexity, cost, and hardware limitations?

This is true but you can overcome that with a VCF like the SSM2044 Not the same as a SID, but still a great way to have a pretty kick-ass synth that is very similar, but with a better filter.

technobreath · February 17, 2012, 4:42pm

Yep, an external vcf is on my todo list. But I will design something discrete, I think the CEM chips are kinda hard to get.. and in 10 years when I need replacement maybe… then it is suddenly become unobtanium - not silicium :P.

I use some analog vsti synths, for example sylenth1, and I just LOVE the filter. 24db/oct lowpass on a “fifth” style saw, slightly detuned and resonance added to the point of it almost sounding like harsh feedback… makes a lot of nice overtones that I just love. sounds very dreamish…! Kinda off topic :P. I have also never tried a real hardware filter of that sort, so it would be nice if I build a filter that sounds like that mmmm.

supposedly the FPGA-SIDs are the most accurate. Not small and not really cheap considering the cost of the real thing.

Are u saying there already have been “built” a FPGA-SID?

nILS · February 17, 2012, 5:12pm

Are u saying there already have been “built” a FPGA-SID?

Yes! http://bit.ly/y2ioNU

technobreath · February 17, 2012, 5:42pm

Cool!