Newbie: Help on Organ Midification.

MIDIfication
1

Hi, I have and old 51 key & 25 pedal harmonium.

The sound it’s really crapy, the reeds are not really in a good state and belows are in poor condition. Besides, it’s not a really good instrument so I’ve decided I would use it to build sort of an italian organ console (which typically have only one manual and limited pedals).

Now, of course I need to MIDIfy this console in order to use it with either Hauptwerk or Myorgan.

But…I’m complete lost.

I want to do this all by me, not because I have lots of spare time, but for the fact that were I live (Argentina) we don’t have MIDI kits available at reasonable costs and also import some kit would be really expensive (think 3x the value of the kit due to shipping costs and customs). Therefore, I will have to do it by me.

I don’t know really where to start. But I already have some questions:

a) What would be the ideal controller to use?

b) what about the switches that encode the note-on and note-off events of the manual and pedalboard?

Any help would be really apreciated.

Thanks in advance.

nacho

2

Hiya nacho,

You should definitely use the search functions of the forum and wiki. This is a complicated subject, so it will take some time, and especially some electronics and programming skills… But there are many answers already, and lots of help here if you need it :slight_smile:

a) I don’t understand this question… Aren’t you trying to turn your organ into the controller?

b) Search for scanning matrix :slight_smile:

3

You need to add electronic switches, something I do not have experience with. For pedals reed switches and magnets are commonly used.

To create a MIDI out you need one Core module, one DIN module, one DOUT module. This enables  you to use scan matrices. You can look at the example code, a wiring diagram is available there.

I changed the scan matrix example code such that it can scan two keyboards and pedal. Using the example code you can get one manual working, if you are this far you can contact me for the modified source code to be loaded in the core module.

The whole project assumes some experience with electronics, but is not very difficult.

4

I would suggest using the MIDIIO128 project to MIDIfy your harmonium.  The scan matrix will work but it is conceptually a tiny bit more difficult.  The big thing in favor of MIDIIO128 is that it is a project that has been in use for a long time and there is much more information and help available for it.  You will need a CORE module and 3 DIN modules for your harmonium.

As has been pointed out, you need to provide some type of electrical switches on the keys and pedals.  This is primarily a mechanical issue and you’ll have to figure out what is going to work for your harmonium.  It could be as simple as a metal “chopper bar” that connects two spring wires.

You may wish to add some additional controls.  I would particularly suggest adding combination pistons under the keyboard if possible.  They are of great value with the virtual organs that you will want to control.

5

Thanks a lot for your prompt answers.

I will carefully read all the data available on MIDIO128.

And eventually will come back with more questions! hehe

thanks again

Nacho

6

jimhenry,

One question. You mentioned that I would need the Core and 3 DIN modules; that would be one for each manual and another one for the pedalboard, isn’t it?

So I have to midify a single 56 keyboard and a 25 pedal pedalboard I would only need two DINs?

Thanks in advance

nacho

7

jimhenry,

One question. You mentioned that I would need the Core and 3 DIN modules; that would be one for each manual and another one for the pedalboard, isn’t it?

So I have to midify a single 56 keyboard and a 25 pedal pedalboard I would only need two DINs?

Thanks in advance

nacho

Each DIN module (as from SmashTV) has 32 inputs.  So for your situation, 56+25 = 81 which would need 3 DIN modules (96 inputs).  The MIDIIO 128 project supports 4 DIN modules max for a total of 128  ;D inputs.  You’ll have a few inputs left over.

8

Just to agree that MIDIO128 is the way for you to go with 1x CORE and 3x DIN (32 contacts in each).  The only reason you might want a DOUT card would be if you wanted LED or lamp indicators showing the status of things like pistons or stops.

I have built a system to midify a 2x 61 note keyboards and 25 note pedals.  Mine required 2x CORE and 5x DIN plus a further DIN for pistons and other controls.

Magnetic reed switches are how I have set up the switching on my pedals.  It may be a suitable way for you to provide your keyboard switching also, as it can often be done without major hardware changes.

I bought kits from Smash TV, however if you carefully read all the information, you should be able to buy everything locally and get circuit boards printed locally using the plans provided.  You will need to build or buy a PIC programmer to be able to load the initial MIOS operating system.  Once this is loaded you can then upload custom configurations through your Midi interface.

9

Thanks for your answers it’s clear now.

Greenfox do you have some pics of your console? it seems you worked really hard!

cheers

10

The only reason you might want a DOUT card would be if you wanted LED or lamp indicators showing the status of things like pistons or stops.

I bought kits from Smash TV, however if you carefully read all the information, you should be able to buy everything locally and get circuit boards printed locally using the plans provided.  You will need to build or buy a PIC programmer to be able to load the initial MIOS operating system.  Once this is loaded you can then upload custom configurations through your Midi interface.

I think the reason the DOUT board was mentioned earlier is because you use a DOUT with the scan matrix input. With 1 DIN and 1 DOUT you can theoretically have 1,024 inputs.

Even if it makes more sense to make the PCBs locally, or use point to point wiring, I would seriously consider buying the PIC preprogrammed from someone who can provide it with the bootstrap loader already programmed in.  It undoubtedly will save you much time and expense no matter what it costs, which I don’t think will be very much.

Be sure to include an LCD in your project.  It is marked optional but it is necessary unless you are experienced with MIDIbox so you can fly blind.

Greenfox posted some pictures here:

http://www.virtualorgan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=433&PN=1

You might need to register for the Miditzer Forum to see them:

http://www.virtualorgan.com/forum/

11

Creating a MIDIfied console to replicate the 216 WurliTzer within the frame of a Conn 650 to power the MidiTzer is a reaity - the MIDIO128 SmashTV order is due momentarily wirh 2 cores and enough DINs to match.  Thrill!

Since the console is completely gutted, and will use 2 existing MIDI manuals rather than the 3 originally designed for the Conn, the manuals do not need MIDIfication, and there is space to retrofit the new design.

Additional stoptabs on the horseshoe to match the requirements of the San Bernardino 216 WurliTzer console means creating 64 tabs where the Conn has but 52. Couldn’t quite bend, stretch and squeeze to that extent, but by nibbling between the divisions and carving the 'shoe clear to the front ends and shifting the right-half of the horseshoe stops over just a half space and creating a smaller gap between the solo and accomp divisions (with a little divider from Arndt supplier about the width of a quarter dollar, like the WurliTzer in the theatre uses) and by moving the black ACC/PED coupler down to the straight rail below, I can fit 63 tablets. Close enough for Jazz, as the saying goes.

So the work begins now to actuate MIDI events to the MidiTzer engine from the tablets in a portable touring console that is also being modified cosmetically to resemble the casework of the 216 Wurli … and boy, is it lighter without the original 650 electronics! It almost floats, heh!

Computer and amps are transported in an Anvil Case, and the speakers are separate modules as well, rather than housed within the Conn console.

We may need to MIDIfy the pedal clavier, but the existing keyboards do not need MIDI retrofit.

We may use 2 computers, one dedicated to keyboards and pedal clavier, and a second one for the stoptabs. Has anyone run two computers with MidiTzer successfully?

Some have talked about the potential of multiple computers on other lists to run soundfonts, but this is a discrete tab signal stream, separate from the soundcards.

It doesn’t seem to make a difference in how it’s wired to the MIDIO128 MidiBox kits at this point, just how the MIDI out is handled to the computer..

To keep the transportability of the 216-inspired console as simple as possible, we’d prefer a single computer, but if latency becomes a problem, we’ll definitely take steps to avoid it.

paul

12

Hi Paul

That’s quite a project.  Apart from a big Rogers or an Allen, the Conn 650 series is certainly the closest console to replicate the Wurlitzer Style 216.

I am a little sad to hear you have stripped out the original keyboards.  The Conn keyboards have a quality feel that is not matched by any other keyboard I have ever played.  They are a joy to play for hour after hour.

I don’t think your plan to have all the stops connected through Midi is likely to cause latency.  Latency issues were the legacy of earlier versions.  Try the latest beta version http://virtualorgan.com/FileLib/Miditzer216_0714Install.exe to take advantage of improved softsynth sound generation.

If you do decide you want to go with a second PC, the logical split is the two chambers, solo and main.  You can feed both PC’s the same Midi signals with each only producing the sounds of its own chamber.  There is discussion about these setups on the Miditzer Forum. http://www.virtualorgan.com/forum/default.asp

I can’t see how you could split the function of stops to a different PC.  The stop function will not be a big load on the system as there is really not a lot of traffic for this function.  Having the tabs move when pistons are pressed will be an interesting challenge.

I look forward to hearing how your project comes along.  Some pictures will be great as things come together.

Rick

13

X

14

Rick,

I don’t intend to have the stops move by MIDI command. I have a box of SAMS that I will use in a subsequent project for later replication of the Lorin Whitney Robert Morton, but that will probably have to be jOrgan, since Esq James seems to indicate SAMS are not a practical function of the MidiTzer.

One of the main reasons I use MidiTzer exclusively now, especially with the touring 216, is to help promote the MidiTzer to today’s musicians, so it is my defacto standard, rather than other software.

I believe there might be a way to use DOUT cards to enable me to place leds above each stoptab, and if I ever get through the current process, that is something I aspire to. I definitely need the toggle up/down to generate MIDI events, but I do not intend to have them powered up and down automatically, say, when pistons are enabled. That is overkill for this project.

The look and feel, and sound, of this replica in the style of the San Bernardino 216is what I intend.

If these cores and subsequent DOUTs can allow me to attach an LED above each tab stop to designate tablet is energized, that will be great, but I have much to learn before attempting that. Apart from using pistons, just eyeballing the horseshoe up/down tabs is good enough for me at present.

Just removing the bottom “lip” of the horseshoe smile, where the tongues of the tablets protrude, was a major enough decision for me at this point. I have far to go and much to learn, so don’t give up on me. I wouldn’t be this far without JohnC’s help.

Paul

15

Hi there,

I’m following Jimhenry’s advice and will order de PIC already with the bootloader. Here’s another question and doubt. I notice that in:

http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/buy.html

When you have to check the loaded PIC it asks for a “PIC ID header”. I understand (basically) what this means, however I’m not sure of what should I put there. My idea is encode the pedalboard. That is only one Core module and only one DIN module. I will encode the manuals in the future, for now I will use two el-cheapo MIDI keyboards.

Jim, you also said it’s better to have an LCD. Is it really necessary?

And the last question would be I notice that there are other MIDIfy DIY proyects on the web, but they seem much more complicated when wiring the pedals as almost all of them need diodes and switches. Does MIDIbox need diodes too?

Thanks and sorry for being pain.

cheer

Nacho

16

When you have to check the loaded PIC it asks for a “PIC ID header”. I understand (basically) what this means, however I’m not sure of what should I put there. My idea is encode the pedalboard. That is only one Core module and only one DIN module. I will encode the manuals in the future, for now I will use two el-cheapo MIDI keyboards.

Jim, you also said it’s better to have an LCD. Is it really necessary?

And the last question would be I notice that there are other MIDIfy DIY proyects on the web, but they seem much more complicated when wiring the pedals as almost all of them need diodes and switches. Does MIDIbox need diodes too?

The default PIC header of 0 is fine. It only matters when two or more cores are connected.

I think an LCD is necessary. When you are getting started it will be very reassuring to see things happening on the LCD.  When everything is working you can disconnect the LCD or just leave it inside the case in case you need to troubleshoot.  The LCD is not needed for normal use.

The diodes are used in switch matrix designs. The are more efficient in terms of hardware.  But when you are making only one, efficiency of the hardware is not the most important thing.  Efficiency of your time is.  MIDIIO128 is “dumb” in that you have 128 inputs that are just looking for a high or low level provided by a simple switch.  No tricky wiring.  No diodes.  No problems.

17

Well, thanks a lot for the help.

I already placed the order, so the projet officially started.

I ordered:

  1. Core Module Kit + PIC with Boot loader installed

  2. One DIN module KIT.

That should be OK to encode a 32 pedal pedalboard, isn’t it?.

Now, I’ve been carefully reading the instructions to upload the sysex and if I did not understand it wrong, even if I upload a wrong configured sysex file, I will have the option to erase that program and upload another one without ruin the PIC.

Also, should I have to configure the MIDI OUT sections even if there won’t be a DOUT module?

And the last question, for what I read it seems that only NOTE ON messages are configured, what about NOTE OFF?

Thanks again

nacho

18

Hi Nacho

All good questions and not clear in all the documentation.

1/ yes, the items you have ordered will do 32 switches, so will do your pedal board.  (For the relatively low cost of the DIN kits I would have ordered 4x but that is your choice.)

2/ yes, the PIC chips supplied by SmashTV are able to be reprogrammed over and over again.  (Thankfully, because I have made and continue to make changes to mine.)

Just to help at this point, there are 3x steps to load your PIC configuration.

SmashTV will supply with the boot loader, then:

A/ upload the MIOS

B/ upload MIDIO128

at this point your switches will give out default MIDI messages

play your pedals and write down what MIDI message comes from what note (this is where the LCD is useful, or I used MIDIOX)

now customise your MIDI OUT configuration using “mk_midio128â€

C/ upload MK_MIDIO128

3/ no, you don’t need to touch any configuration of the DOUT.  It has been recommended that even though it is not used you just leave the script in the config file.

4/ below is a section of the config file from my pedal configuration file.  Each switch does have an ON and an OFF message in the script.  (You will notice they are not in note order.  I wired up the switches with the ICD cable neet.  I then corrected the switching in the script.)

[MIDI_OUT]

##########################################

Pin  # On Evnt # Off Evnt # Behaviour

##########################################

    1 =  92 2A 7F  92 2A 00  @OnOff

    2 =  92 2B 7F  92 2B 00  @OnOff

    3 =  92 28 7F  92 28 00  @OnOff

    4 =  92 29 7F  92 29 00  @OnOff

    5 =  92 26 7F  92 26 00  @OnOff

    6 =  92 27 7F  92 27 00  @OnOff

    7 =  92 24 7F  92 24 00  @OnOff

    8 =  92 25 7F  92 25 00  @OnOff

    9 =  92 31 7F  92 31 00  @OnOff

  10 =  92 30 7F  92 30 00  @OnOff

  11 =  92 33 7F  92 33 00  @OnOff

  12 =  92 32 7F  92 32 00  @OnOff

  13 =  92 2E 7F  92 2E 00  @OnOff

  14 =  92 2F 7F  92 2F 00  @OnOff

  15 =  92 2C 7F  92 2C 00  @OnOff

  16 =  92 2D 7F  92 2D 00  @OnOff

19

Niya, Nacho, how is you project coming along?

I’ve ordered my stuff from SmashTV to do what you are doing, creating MIDI pedal triggers to add to pre-existing MIDI manuals (and combining all in a MIDI merge unit), for a lightweight touring organ in a gutted Conn 650 console powering MidiTzer 216 Wurli … although I am creating MIDI triggers from the Conn stoptabs (in a rather ambitious project that almost doubles the original number of previous tablets).

I’ve ordered 2 cores plus 5 DINS and a DOUT, just so’s I’ll have enough stuff on hand, since future projects include MIDIfying a gutted WurliTzer electronic organ, plus eventually adding some winded pipe ranks to a 4-manual organ based on the MidiTzer 260 Balban, and those require mastering the DOUT technology.

I haven’t soldered since working for a Boy Socut merit badge. I hired engineers when I had my recording studio, but this labor of love is calling me to do the work, so I’d really appreciate anything you are encountering that will help me “get” it.

pk

Nacho wrote:

My idea is encode the pedalboard. That is only one Core module and only one DIN module. I will encode the manuals in the future, for now I will use two el-cheapo MIDI keyboards.

20

Well here it goes and update on my project.

I’ve ordered, received and already mounted the core and the din modules (thanks smashtv ; really great great service)

I uploaded de MIOS and the MIDI128. However, they still give me default MIDI signals.

I’m working now on finishing the pedalboard (I have disassembled all the pedalboard to restore it to what it was 40 years ago). I have to get the reed switches and after that program the .ini of the MIDI128.

However, I’m not quite sure of how to make this. I guess I would need more help.

I’ve been checking the default messages encoded by the MIDI128 application: They are note on, note off signals (which is what I need) but they start at C3 (channel 1) and I would like to it start at C2 (channel 4), only note on-note off events.

Where should I read on how to customize the .ini

Thanks a lot for your help.