New project idea (maybe) and stupid questions etc.

Design Concepts
1

Hello you all.

Brief introduction to why I have been thinking.

I’ve been tinkering with the idea to create a new instrument, preferable based on midi since I want it to control softsynths rather then be a real instrument.

Though I’ve never been especially comfortable with keyboards (like the clarinet ,base player) I am, the midi saxophone didn’t do it for me either, to little control over parameters.

That is why I came up with this hybrid (described further down)

The guitar/controllerboard-analouge:

The main idea is to create an instrument that looks and feels a bit like a guitar /electric base.

A neck and a body.

The neck would have sliders on it, paired four by four, for easy manipulation of parameters.

Also the body would have to have a few knobs, for the rest of the parameters, I mean, hey, why leave out the possibility to control even more?

The tricky part is the pitch velocity controlling.

I’ve solved this (I think, please read the questions) by adding a triangular shaped plate to the middle of the body, this will be movable sideways and upwards downwards.

Sideways controlling pitch and up/ down controlling volume.

There are a few mechanical problems associated with this, but these are just problems to be solved.

And its about this part I do have a few questions.

Some of these question might be solvable with programming, but that is not a problem to me.

The question (may be stupid though)

I’d like to start of with the standard disclaimer of being an electronics newbie/bimbo etc.

The PCB’s I’m going to buy. but I do have a few questions about the sliders and knobs.

For the plate, it would be best to use sliders, but endless rotary encoders would probably do the trick?

Does the Midibox support a mix of endless and ending?

If no, could this be solved with programming?

The pitch direction would have to be a special adaption of the mios I think, I read through the c-interface brief on the site, it should be doable to send note on events with velocity with the information from those sliders / knobs.

Note of is a problem since you can move it, but I guess the most usable solution will be to send note of if velocity=0 and/or a new note is played.

Is this doable (I think yes, but I want to make sure)

The Midibox configuration I’ve been thinking on:

One Core and one AIN, this would be sufficient yes?

Questions again:

Combining endless/ending?

Special adaption of note on/ off events.

Midibox configuration, suitable or to little?

/Johan

2

The question (may be stupid though)

I’d like to start of with the standard disclaimer of being an electronics newbie/bimbo etc.

The PCB’s I’m going to buy. but I do have a few questions about the sliders and knobs.

For the plate, it would be best to use sliders, but endless rotary encoders would probably do the trick?

Does the Midibox support a mix of endless and ending?

If no, could this be solved with programming?

The pitch direction would have to be a special adaption of the mios I think, I read through the c-interface brief on the site, it should be doable to send note on events with velocity with the information from those sliders / knobs.

Note of is a problem since you can move it, but I guess the most usable solution will be to send note of if velocity=0 and/or a new note is played.

Is this doable (I think yes, but I want to make sure)

The Midibox configuration I’ve been thinking on:

One Core and one AIN, this would be sufficient yes?

Questions again:

Combining endless/ending?

Special adaption of note on/ off events.

Midibox configuration, suitable or to little?

/Johan

If I understand you right, that plate will be getting both x- and y-Data, meaning horizontal and vertical movement. That´s kinda hard to do… either you use two pots (similar to a joystick) or some sliders one on the other. I don´t see any good possibility to implement encoders there… unless you only let move it in one direction and the other parameter is implemented by rotating the enc (I´m talking about a moveable Encoder).

MIOS (the software behind Midibox) does allow combinations of Pots and Encs (not endless and endless) and even Motorfaders.

Because of that note stuff: Doable is everything, but it will be some kinda of programming stuff and I don´t know how much you´re in there. If you know what you´re doing it shouldn´t be to much of a prob, especially with MIOS, if not it´s gonna be tricky…

One core and one AIN (for Pots/Sliders), one or more DINs (for Encs and Buttons) and some DOUTs (for LEDs and stuff - to see what you´re doing). That should be enough.

Greetz!

3

Yes X and Y data.

the main problem with sliders I think is that they might not provide the resolution that is necesarry.

That is why I thought of rotary encoders but they might be more troublesome then the gain.

It would be hard to hit the right note!

Maybe there is such a thing as a joystick like 2 directional component already, have to check that.

Or does anyone know of such a gadget?

Programming is not a problem, especially with the c functionality glue, this will probably take me the least time of the whole project.

Why would I need a DIN if all i want is pots and sliders? that goes for the DOUT to, I dont really need the LEDs, although they would be nice, but they are not a must have!

4

If u use that x/y data for pitch/velocity you have to think of following: velocity is divided in 128 steps -> resolution is no prob. pitch (!!) is divided in (I think) 2^14 steps (maybe 2^15? Dammit, that´s so long ago I read that… ! :wink: ).

An encoder provides about 24 steps per *whole* revolution, so you would have to turn it f*****g often to get the whole range of the pitch… there are high res encoders available, but they´re *REALLY* expensive! Normal pots/sliders are better for something like this (think of pitch wheels in good keyboards -> there are pots under there!).

Also the x/y mechanics would be a bit easier with sliders.

DIN/DOUT is needed e.g. for bank changing, menu controlling of the Midibox software, snapshooting etc.

You also could think of Octave up/down knobs, portamento knobs (OK, a little different to a guitar…  :) ) and so on. So you *can* build it without DIN/DOUT but I wouldn´t recommend it. Would just be more flexible.

Greetz & good luck!

5

Actually I was thinking on the bus this mornin.

If i had buttons I could do a lot if interesting things,

I could make the mechanics easier, just needing to have one slider for pitch. and one button to bring it on.

I could still have one slider for volume, but that would be controlled elsewhere on the board.

I could have buttons for chords, monophonic I think is a bit booring, arpeggio could be added aswell.

Some leds or a backhlighted LCD would be very nice.

At least the leds.

Im gonna do some more thinking, and then do some ordering :slight_smile:

Thanks for all the help!

6

That´s what I´m talking about!  ;D

7

I 've been thinking about midi note interfaces

Built much like a regular dj mixer: an encoder, 2 vertical sliders, one wide button below them and a row of buttons above.

The encoder sets the main pitch. The left vertical slider would control the pitch across a scale type (pentatonic etc.), selected with the row of buttons. The right slider selects the octave. The wide button below the sliders could be thumb activated, so that both the scale step AND octave could be manipulated with each hand, for mad arp action.

This could be done as a strap-on as well, the scale step selector as the neck of the guitar, octave buttons by the left thumb on the neck, and a velocity sensitive area as the body, but basically much like the one you suggest.

The thing is to not let the slider work across the entire range of midi notes, but 2 -2½ octaves at most, otherwise you won’t be able to hit specific notes to save your life. Also, forcing the notes to a specific key+scale would make playing it a lot easier.

8

Your idea sounds really cool! Here’s another similar idea

maybe you would like. put rows of buttons up the neck to correspond with the notes on a real bass. Like where the frets would be would be four buttons(or five if you like five string) then at the back could be one more row off buttons to trigger the notes of each “String” that way you could finger it like a bass and "pluck each string individually or together for chords. the notes could be set to sustain a certain duration, controlled by a pot, or to sustain as long as the button is held. you could still have a slider for bends and stuff, and pots and buttons for other things too.

9

Arumblack, that somewhat reminds me of a controller I saw a long time ago. It was a multibutton controller, that fits around the back of a guitar/bass neck. it had buttons you could push with your thumb while your were playing your guitar.  I always wanted to try one out… Would have been great for chords, and pads to layer out your sound.