I will start posting information about my MIDIbox SID project to this thread. There is lots of “my MIDIbox” threads already, but im sure it helps people to understand my questions. When I have problems, anyone can see what have I done already to give proper tips. Also there is as many problems as there is builders, so maybe I find some new troubles that latter SID candidates need help with, thus making their work a tid easier…
I will add the latest question to the thread subject, so its easier to figure out if there is something new going on…
Does it hold any advantages to use 2 of the both SID models in my 4 SID box, or is it wiser to try to find 4 identical ones? I have 2 of both at the moment, so it would be a bit cheaper to not to buy more c64s just for SID-chips…
Someplace had nfo that said that only problem is that I need separate presets for both SIDchip types. Do I load one for every SID normally, or are they in one package that changes the preset to every SID onboard at the same time?
Sounds difficult to keep separate preset information in my feeble short term memory…
Where can I find information about which of the chips is the better one? Or just something about the differences… My only known fact is that in my new version of C64, digitalized sounds and some weirder soundcode didnt seem to work in games… That used to get me rather mad and stick with the original and much nicer model of C64… In MIDIbox I cant see this being a problem…
Someplace had nfo that said that only problem is that I need separate presets for both SIDchip types.
As far as I know there are no different patches (I use only 8580). But there are different firmware versions (mostly due to different filter characteristics of the two SIDs).
Some people have already build such “mixed” setups. The only real difference from the hardware side is that the 6581 needes 12V regulator and the 8580 needs 9V. Keep that im mind before you`re frying your 8580 with a too high voltage.
Also the filter caps are different for the two SIDs.
Where can I find information about which of the chips is the better one? Or just something about the differences…
I enjoy playing the same patch in stereo, I love the effect that the small differences of the chips make.
By the way, there is so much to be drawn even from a single oscillator, that four sids are really needed only for some heavier sequencer use, in my opinion. The key is to have the full control surface, because it makes morphing the sound easy and intuitive. You get the SID’s soul at your fingertips!
The filter changes a lot by using different capacitors, mine are a bit larger in value than the stock ones (I use 4,7 nF on the 8580 insted of 2,2 nF and 1000 pF on the 6581 insted of 470 pF). I think I get the filter range more usable, as the original values give too much playground in the highest treble, where I find it less useful.
Oh, the initial issue on different chips - whatever you like best. You’ll know once you have played with both (and you will probably want both after that…). For regular C64 use, the 8580 sucks because the digi-sounds are useless (imagine loading up Skate Or Die with the title music lacking the crushing guitar chord)…
Thank you, this was a great help… I will order parts for 2+2, I think I have the chips available from my old junkyard of C64s… Most have problems with video-output, so I am sure that the sids are running…
Lets see how this plan starts to evolve…
One question tho, doesnt it create some problemsto use different SIDs with just one PSU as both use different voltage?
I am playing it safe : Hopefully someone has patience to guide me thru the ordering part…
I have the following order ready, I just thought about asking if im forgotting something essential…
I will get additional buttons and leds later from a place where my friend works (so I get a proper discount from there )but in this order I have tried to cover everything that is needed to get the actual synth running.
I live in Finland, so I don’t want to make several orders just to get that missing PIC or one PCB, etc etc etc…
So, don’t get mad, this is just like getting married, big step that should be thought over before doing a thing
Also, if someone has suggestions about merging MIDIbox FM and SID, now would be a proper time, as i am just getting started… Would it be possible to have single controller for both? My SX-64 case would be so nice, but a bit clumsy for just one synth… Is there a test case… searching in the meanwhile…
Yours,
Nestle
Ok, and the order (from Joergs midishop) as a copypaste:
Also, if someone has suggestions about merging MIDIbox FM and SID, now would be a proper time, as i am just getting started… Would it be possible to have single controller for both?
hi, you could put the 2 synths in the same box (other people are planning to do this too) but they both have dedicated control surfaces which are quite different, because the handling/programming of the synths is different too.
If you dont need the dedicated control surfaces you could just make the synths without CS but make/use a midicontroller (built inthe case) to control both synths.
i would say; get the sid working for now, maybe in a temporary case; then build the FM, then think of ways of combining them. Mixing the 2 from the start might make (the eventual) troubleshooting more difficult, but of course this is still up to you!
hi, you could put the 2 synths in the same box (other people are planning to do this too) but they both have dedicated control surfaces which are quite different, because the handling/programming of the synths is different too.
If you dont need the dedicated control surfaces you could just make the synths without CS but make/use a midicontroller (built inthe case) to control both synths.
i would say; get the sid working for now, maybe in a temporary case; then build the FM, then think of ways of combining them. Mixing the 2 from the start might make (the eventual) troubleshooting more difficult, but of course this is still up to you!
oh, and don’t forget to buy encoders!
cheers, marcel
Encoders = datawheel?
Maybe I will choose separate synths after all… they are not that big after all and some controls can be shared or combined using separate midicontroller for co-operative weirdness. And they look nice on your desk…
About your order - I’d say get more ribbon cable, to make sure you’re ok. I was really surprised at the total amount of wire I spent. And the MIDI cables are really cheap at Joerg’s, too.
Other than that, your order seems fine, as you said you’ll get the rest of the components from a friend (I wonder how anyone can build a full control surface without having some connections in the business as some of the parts will be hard to get or just insanely priced).
This is just a thought: I burned the bootloader myself with the JDM module I built (the MBHP burner is its up-to-date replacement), and I really got a confidence boost from realizing that I was able to build a working device from a bag of little tidbits. So making the burner was good practice and a lot of encouragement for the actual MBSID project.
Ok, I have started planning of the case and have already soldered all of the modules. Core modules really gave me the creeps, as I only got 4 volts in every single of them during the testing phase. Fortunately I was just feeding the voltage to wrong pins 8), after I learned where to feed the core, every test game me 5.18, whins I hope is inside tolerance?
If someone knows, this would be a good thing to know… So question 1. Is + 5.18v tolerable voltage for + 5v legs of PIC?
As I have all the modules soldered, I will install all 4 sids and cores to power and place them into somekind of temporary casing, possibly C-64. Next phase will be to test if I get software uploaded and somekind of sound out of them using Midi-ox. Better not to plan more ahead :
I have taken some photos, but I lost my mini-usb cable… Hopefully I get to add them in near future.
Going slow and steady, I still havent got my USB-cable, so my photo journal stays in my compact flash card.
I finished step B, only searching for datawheel… Does someone have part code for a good one at Voti.nl?
My synth is working properly, I will transfer programs to chips later today or tomorrow, I have week off, so I try to start step C and finish casing too. Had some problems with Midi-out, but now my leds are blinking nicely
I left the synth on for a hour or so and i noticed that SID-chips got rather hot, i can keep my finger on em, it feels hot, but not burning hot. Still, should I put a heatsink on 'em? How warm are your chips? PICs are more like room temperature.
Voltage dropped to exact voltages after I applied chips on boards, so voltage question I made before solved itself.
Now I go and buy that USB-cable, It is time to add images to this post.
SIDs (6851) have tendency to run quite hot. It’s nothing to worry about. You might put heatsink on those. (I’ve seen C64s use metalshield on top of the PCB to contact SIDs and be sort of heatsinking element)
SIDs (6851) have tendency to run quite hot. It’s nothing to worry about. You might put heatsink on those. (I’ve seen C64s use metalshield on top of the PCB to contact SIDs and be sort of heatsinking element)
Moebius
Thanks for the tip, I will qlue small heatsinks on all 4 just to be sure. Those new models arent hot really, but they look nicer if every SID has that majestic look :
Well, this is kinda your avarage slideshow, not that much to show. I have just followed the instructions and roamed the uCapps-website when I have had some questions… Nothing spectacular, but who knows what happens when I start building control surface and stuff… So here goes… Hmm, it seems that I managed to cut the images in half, it is 4 SID setup, or one half of it. Anyway, They look more artistic I think… If you right click the images you can see them in whole using ‘view image’
Just all the boards on a piece of C-64 that I am about to use as inside cover to separate synthparts and control surface parts.
Completed basic soldering, Midi is sending messages and I am about to start uploading some data on PICs
This is the casing I have planned. It is tech-briefcase that I emptied hardened and separated in two sections, smaller one is for magnetic devices such as subwoofer and power. I am planning to create a pinballmachine like soundsystem into this case (stereo + subwoofer), plus a mounting for mini-midi keyboard, so it is complete soundsystem that only requires power. Soundsystem will work great as a monitor when playing live and gives cool standalone sweetness that I can carry with me anywhere I go.
I can’t get my LCD running, I just get backlight and some rapid flashes in matrix itself, but after these short flashes it remains empty.
I only connected LCD using 16 wires, but not any pots or leds, should it work that way?
Nestle
Update: I checked and re-soldered LCD and added din and dout modules (without any pots or buttons). Did not help. If it should work, I will take some pictures so you guys can help me out in noticing if there is some blatant errors.
I have connected all modules, flashed one PIC, everything seems ok - just can’t get that lcd running.
Yes, it will work without any additional circurity.
But if you don’t see the empty bar line, then propably some connections are wrong - you have to double check this. And I hope that a wrong connection didn’t destory the LCD, this can happen very fast!
Maybe the contrast pot of the other core modules is not adjusted? However, please don’t try this, check the wiring first!
Hopefully someone has patience to guide me thru the ordering part…