my midi mon build

Design Concepts
1

well after speaking with a few members i have decided to build one of thorstens midimons with the mtc display also.

i will have a custom case made but i also want to insert into the case the insides from a contour shuttle pro controller then i will have a really nice mtc display and control surface unit.

now this will be my very first build of a project here, im very good with a soldering iron, i have 3 different irons from standard all the way to fine pitch and i also have a surface mount iron set with vacum pump.

its been a long time since i did eny form of electronics work so im getting back to it very slowly and this will be a good starting point.

now in the midimon thread i didnt see if there is a pcb available for the main controller or not, if not do you have one thorsten that i can give to someone to have made? a circuit shcematic for making a pcb? also is there a chip on the board that would need an external programmer to insert some custom operating code into? if so is it possible to get someone to do this for me? i know that the mtc displays board was a prototye board and thats ok i can get them but the main control baord i dont know what was used for that as theres no information.

im hoping to get as much info and pictures etc as i can so i get things right first time, its a project im looking forward to.

also on this picture you see the front of the board but there isnt a picture of the rear, so i cannot see how the connections were made. is therea picture or can you take a picture of the rear for me thorsten please?

if you guys can give me as much help as possible i can get parts ordered and get on with a build.

also i am wondering if i can change the green lcd display for a blue one? if there is a blue equivalent (do you know if there is one thorsten?) something similar to this display here http://shop.tuxgraphics.org/electronic/detail_lcd_blue.html

many thanks guys, im looking forward to building this.

midimon_mtc.jpg
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2

http://ucapps.de/midimon.html

Have you been on that site?

Have you seen the links below the pictures?

-> http://ucapps.de/midimon/mtc_extension.pdf

now in the midimon thread i didnt see if there is a pcb available for the main controller or not, if not do you have one thorsten that i can give to someone to have made? a circuit shcematic for making a pcb? also is there a chip on the board that would need an external programmer to insert some custom operating code into? if so is it possible to get someone to do this for me? i know that the mtc displays board was a prototye board and thats ok i can get them but the main control baord i dont know what was used for that as theres no information.

Do yourself a favour and read those Websites:

http://wiki.midibox.org/

All your questions will be answered there  :wink:

regards

matthias

3

yes i have read them. forgive me but theres a reason i ask so many questions, i suffered with a mini stroke a while ago so my reading skills are not what they used to be and my understanding the circuits isnt as good as itused to be, thats why i am asking questions so i can learn again.

please understand i just want to learn again some elctronics and have fun doing them. yes i read the sites you mention but i find it hard to understand somethimes whats in front of me so i always ask a lot of questions. there is an old saying " i would rather be a fool for 5 mins and ask a question, than never ask a question and be a fool for the rest of my days" so i ask, its the best way for me to learn now again, to ask and learn.

ok  i have found these items to start with.

blue lcd display 20x4 transflective STN blue/white (will this work thorsten? the data sheet is there to look over in pdf format)

RS Stock No. 532-6818

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=532-6818

so i thought of using that as the display

and then these for the mtc display

http://cpc.farnell.com/kingbright/sa52-11ewa/led-display-0-52-he-red-ca/dp/LP00450

for the mtc board i was going to get this. and trim down as necessary.

http://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/254-899/single-sided-stripboard/dp/PC01210

4

yes i have read them. forgive me but theres a reason i ask so many questions, i suffered with a mini stroke a while ago so my reading skills are not what they used to be and my understanding the circuits isnt as good as itused to be, thats why i am asking questions so i can learn again.

I’m sorry for having been a little harsh before in that case  :frowning: .

As for the saying, you’re right. But you can avoid being a fool for 5 minutes by reading for 3 minutes  :wink:

The point is that people keep asking the same questions over and over again. It’s different in your case but unfortunately i wasn’t aware of that.

The LED Displays will work, and so does your stripboard. Don’t forget to cut the strips as needed.

The LCD is likely to work, but I’m not quite shure. Can someone else confirm this?

It says “KS0066U controller” but I couldn’t find that on the uCApps LCD page.

5

hey thats ok, i understand that may be the case, i just want to build things again in my spare time, as i have lots of spare time now i do not work, and i hate daytime tv! i used to love electronics but i have had to learn all again with my left hand. i have been reading this hour now so it is starting to sink into my head a little.

ok so  as i understand it i need the following

an MBHP core, will the v3 work with the midimon project?

i also need to an mbhp doutx4 and then use the mbhp_doutx4_mtc.pdf file for the connection layout

so i find this website here with all the pcb and parts to make this kit

http://www.mikes-elektronikseite.de/shop_englisch/index.htm

so i can buy the core and doutx4 there, it says on the site if that is ok? what pic will i need for the core please?

and will the nice blue lcd screen i found on rs website work ok?

if this is all ok i can order things monday and get to work so as i recieve all items

6

Hi ssp,

Sorry to hear about your illness and I hope that recovery is continual for you. I understand that sometimes these things can place you in a difficult situation, so if you ever need a hand with something and you’d rather not ask in public, feel free to drop me a PM. Likewise if there is anything that we can do to improve existing documentation or our replies, please let us know. We’d like to make it as easy as possible for you.

I hope that you’ll forgive the “go read” response that you got here, and especially that it may (hopefully not though) happen again in future. Sadly, some people are just lazy, don’t try to find this info for themselves, and they’ve set a bad precedent (which is why you got that answer from SLP)… So if we react to that precedent in your case, where it doesn’t apply, try not to let it get to you, just give us a friendly little slap to remind us :slight_smile: Everyone here is really friendly and will do their best to help you.

Anyway, that aside, to quickly answer your questions:

an MBHP core, will the v3 work with the midimon project?

i also need to an mbhp doutx4 and then use the mbhp_doutx4_mtc.pdf file for the connection layout

so i find this website here with all the pcb and parts to make this kit

http://www.mikes-elektronikseite.de/shop_englisch/index.htm

so i can buy the core and doutx4 there, it says on the site if that is ok?

All correct.

what pic will i need for the core please?

PIC18F452, or PIC18F4620.

and will the nice blue lcd screen i found on rs website work ok?

Yes. KS0066 controllers (which SLP noticed your LCD has) are compatible with HD44780 (which is the intended chip for MIOS LCDs). (it’s on the wiki if you would like more info)

SLP: Don’t feel bad mate, you reacted in the right way to the precedent that’s been set. I guess this could be seen as the exception that proves the rule :wink: I bet you’re glad you were friendly about it now though :smiley:

7

stryd, i did message slp and told him it wasnt his fault and its all ok, i was very consice about this and its good that im being treated the same as everyone else would be, it makes a change not to have people being cautious and softly around me. on the internet is the only place im treated the same as everyone else. to be honest im glad he said what he did because i had to read and read again the info there, its making its way intop my head so i learn things again, its good , it is a little hard to concentrate and get things to sink in but i am trying and i do want to build this kit myself, so i can say that i did it. after this i am going to try and to a control surface unit as im starting to understand that everything is just basically a modular kit set, so as i understand, you get the core unit, then the addon kits and extra items such as faders and potentiometers and led lights etc. then you program the core chip etc for the things you want it to do.

now that i find this mikes website i can get the kit with all parts and most important a pcb, because i cant etch them here. and build these projects.

im really looking forward to building this first one and then doing more kits as i go along.

ok so i can get the core and the doux kits from mike, is his website still active for ordering and buying things? i only have paypal here is there anyway he takes paypal do you know?

on his english site there is no email adress foe to ask him on email if i can pay with paypal.

is mike a member here if he is i could message him is that ok to do?

where do i get the correct pic chip from can i get this from mike’s website? as i do not see a list of chips there to buy.

once again i want to thank thorsten and stryd for such and excellent site here, the info is fantastic and the members are greaat most of all the projects that have been made are really fantastic also.

i havent seen such things made by people not in companies before!!!

thanks again.

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hi! yes i just looked for the pics stryd_one mentioned and Mike has them both in his shop. as far as i know the only pic he doesn’t provide is the pic you’d need if building the MBSID V2. but yours are in the Accessories section:

http://www.mikes-elektronikseite.de/shop_englisch/index.htm

i’ve sent him emails, too, several times and of course it’s ok for him if you do so:

**removed to avoid spam**

edit rosch:  :-[ sorry, wasn’t even aware of that

9

thank you for the replys.

i will email mike tonight, and ask him for the parts i need then i can get building ! i will order the screen and lcds tomorrow.

on thorstens box in the midimon section there are two buttons, i take it i will need those also so i will get some buttons as well.

im getting there its a slow process but im looking forward to it. thanks again.

10

Sorry guys I edited out mike’s email address so the spambots don’t get it from here… I’ll PM it to you, ssp.

11

ok i have emailed mike and im hoping to hear from him soon, thank you guys.

im going to look over the documantation tonight and see how i go along with things, i now know how to connect the lcd screen to the core board and with what connectors i can use. and im going to look over the mtc display wiring on the doux board, however it would have been good to see the rear of that picture of thorstens one, because even though the led numbers have the numbered pins and so do the doux connectors it doesnt relate in my head as to what goes where, so what im going to do is download the pdf file and draw onto it how i think it goes and show it here, if i get it right please tell me if its wrong tell me quickly!! then i wont make mistake when i do first soldering.

i have also started designing a case for this unit along with the contour shuttle pro unit i have scrapped down to put inside also, so i make a nice midimon with suquencer control unit.

12

i have just found some different colour 7 segment lcd units in singles. at this location .

http://www.lc-led.com/Catalog/department/36/category/49

this is the one i want

http://www.lc-led.com/View/itemNumber/211

will these be ok to use for my mtc board? if they are im going to get a sample pack.

these with the blue lcd display will really make the unit stand out i think :wink:

13

Yepper they’re common anode so should work OK. You might need to increase the value of the resistors on the cathodes because they’re super duper bright… BTW, blue leds may look pretty but they aren’t too great for your eyes.

even though the led numbers have the numbered pins and so do the doux connectors it doesnt relate in my head as to what goes where, so what im going to do is download the pdf file and draw onto it how i think it goes

No problem go for it. If it helps, you’ll notice that the pins are also colour coded. If you connect green ‘a’ on the 595, to all the other green 'a’s on the digits, and repeat that for all the letter/colour combinations, you’ll get it right.

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thats what my head was telling me to do stryd, and in my head it made common sense, but then it was telling me that the same output pin couldnt control the same input pin on several leds because if the pin was live or active then all the leds sgments on the a pin would light up

so to re-iterate pin a on the doux chips goto the a pins on all the green leds. because even though thats what you say my head is saying “no thats not right” so im making myself confused, and making something basic harder than i need to, its a little frustrating but  im getting it :wink:

here we go, i did this in photoshop, i modified the drawing from thorsten a little basically the green colours represent the wiring paths to the led segments.

what resistors do you reccomend instead of the 220’s?

also i emailed mikes electronics but have not heard anything emailed back.

15

Ahh yes, that’s how a matrix works… To size it down a bit:

X----%----%

        |      |

        C      D

In this ASCII art the % are LEDs. If you put 5V (+) on the ‘X’ pin, then you would be powering both LEDs right? Well, if you want to light up *only* LED ‘C’… you need to put 0V (-) on pin ‘C’, to create a circuit… But you have to make sure ‘D’ doesn’t light up right? So on that pin, you put 5V (+), then there is no circuit. It’s + and + on either side of the led, so it does nothing.

BTW, a matrix can do the same in reverse, applying a common (-) to both LEDs and creating the circuit by applying (+) to select.

Because the DOUT pins can be 0V or 5V, you can do like the above.  So indeed as you said:

the same output pin couldnt control the same input pin on several leds because if the pin was live or active then all the leds sgments on the a pin would light up

Well, that’s only if you make a circuit :slight_smile:

In this particular case, the 595 in the middle of the PDF, is used to select which two (one each on left and right side. That’s just to balance things out nicely for the PIC) out of the 8 displays are to be updated.

Then the 595’s on either side light up the correct leds for your numbers.

You’ll often hear them being referred to as a ‘scanning matrix’ because obviously you can only light up two digits at a time. This is overcome by doing two, then the next two, and so on -  ‘scanning’ through all of the digits. It happens fast enough that it looks like they all stay on.

I dunno, matrices are confusing at the best of times, but this seemed like a good example to talk about it. I dunno if I just made it more confusing :smiley:

16

Oops some edits there…

Mike is a midiboxer type like you and I, so he’ll be with you real soon. It’s not a ‘ring the bell for service’ kind of arrangement :slight_smile:

Yep your image is correct!

As for the resistors you need to work that out per your LEDs. Wilba made a really good post about this so I’ll leave it to that thread…Try searching for ‘LED current resistor’ (no quotes) lemme know if you can’t find it.

17

also i emailed mikes electronics but have not heard anything emailed back.

Have a look at SmashTV’s Site. he’s also selling PCBs and Kits and everything.

Some people prefer his PCBs because they have a nice silkscreening which makes populating easier.

-> http://www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/

18

well i have started to design the case work on solidworks so i can see it all in perfect 3d and the software will assemble the case work and check for interferences and tell me where so i can adjust things.

as the led segment displays are bright i will put a plastic strip in front of them that has a slight filter to it to dim the lights down.

i have ordered the parts i have seen online and they should be here shortly, i also saw a nice turorial for connecting the lcd to a piece of grey ribbon cable with a small ide type connector at the other end so i have ordered the relevent items also.

im getting quite excited at the prospect of building this unit as it will be a great little mtc control surface with the shuttle unit cannibleised and installed in the same case.

this is the unit i have bought and will stripdown and put in the same case.

heres the info blurb.

http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/

im also going to add in there to a griffin powermate knob as well that i can task to something else.

im hoping this will be a good first build for me, today has been a good day and things are really making sense to me now, im hoping it stays this way for a while now. i dont have many days when things are in good clarity so im making the most out of it while i can, i have written a lot of things down in a sort of “stupid mans language” so i can still understand it when im not having a good day.

once again many thanks guys, its been so long since something got me excited and motivated!

after this a motorised fader unit is definately the next thing to build and one of the fm synths i have seen here.

this place is amazing, just simply amazing, what some of oyu guys have done is simply amazing!!

i also emailed the guys about the stribe stuff but got no where, thats something to look at  at a much later date.

many many thanks for the patience and advice it makes it all worthwhile to me guys.

19

i have emailed both mike and smash tv and had no responces to my enquiries as of yet, is there anyone else i can buy the complete kits from please?

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i have emailed both mike and smash tv and had no responces to my enquiries as of yet, is there anyone else i can buy the complete kits from please?

nope, smash and mike are the only ones. If you want, you can etch the PCBs yourself, too.

What exactly do you want to ask them? If it’s a question that only smash/míke can answer, you should have a look in the chat

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?action=chat

Smash is there quite often.

as the led segment displays are bright i will put a plastic strip in front of them that has a slight filter to it to dim the lights down.

You can simply increase the value of the resistors on the DOUT-PCB. This will decrease the LED-current and make them less bright.

after this a motorised fader unit is definately the next thing to build and one of the fm synths i have seen here.

have a look at the MB-SID Synthesizer. It uses the SID-chips from the C64.

regards