mbSID v2 "live" concept

nILS · January 13, 2008, 12:26am

As a couple of you already know, seppoman and I are working on a different take of the incredible v2 capabilities: An 8xSID with a major focus on live playability.

The whole thing will look like this rendering:

Different angles, bigger pictures:

http://schickt.de/temp/iwannahavethat27.png

http://schickt.de/temp/iwannahavethat28.png

The layout is basically done. Before finalizing it, I thought it would be nice to show it around a bit and possibly collect some useful ideas from you guys. So, any questions, ideas and comments are highly welcome.

Cheerio,

nILS

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 12:35am

looking good. glad you reconsidered the 8x.

is it big enough to use the mb-6582 main pcb?

looks like there would be room for ext filters…

suggest adding feedback, which rocks.

a 4x mixer would be very useful as well…

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 12:36am

oh, and when will you have my kit ready??

nILS · January 13, 2008, 12:54am

/me orders 25

Yes, Wilba’s board will fit in there and be used leaving us with a *lot* of space for external filters.

About the feedback - some more details on that?

robert_lowell · January 13, 2008, 1:48am

keep me posted. does that incorporate a mb-seq as well? i don’t have time to look for it but the new vids with the seq plus the external buttons all in one live rig would be primo.

sineSurfer · January 13, 2008, 2:42am

start sending the kits now!!! :o

so you asked for ideas, comments, etc.:

nice to see a design with the “banstick” up/down buttons concept (you may want to fix the typo if it is a typo)

finally someone else likes to actually play besides building and tweaking synths ;D ;D ;D

move the octave/transpose up/down buttons to the pitch bend and modulation wheel panel, easier to find in the middle of a frantic lead solo 8)

somehow the envelope buttons location feels weird as they are not related visually to anything else around… but that may be just me

the lines feel too thick against the rest of the design, also you could round all the text box corners to achieve a smoother look, like a crossbreed between this, this and this

otherwise, excellent design you got there!

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 4:36am

…

About the feedback - some more details on that?

a quick search, with mad web skills reveals:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,9238.msg66511.html#msg66511

T.K · January 13, 2008, 5:22pm

My first thought: why are the waveform and ring/sync buttons so dominant? Wouldn’t it be better to add 8 volume pots for the SIDs + 4 “Mono” buttons (which merge two channels together for multi engine) instead of spending area for functions which are not permanently used live?

There is no “Poly” engine, it’s called “Multi” engine (as you can play up to 6 instruments)

The modwheel makes “Knob 1” obsolete

Why not adding a second modwheel?

CutOff and Resonance knobs are too close together.

The modulation matrix is missing

Best Regards, Thorsten.

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 5:49pm

My first thought: why are the waveform and ring/sync buttons so dominant? Wouldn’t it be better to add 8 volume pots for the SIDs + 4 “Mono” buttons (which merge two channels together for multi engine) instead of spending area for functions which are not permanently used live?

hmmm, i really like the idea of mono buttons

i wonder if the mixer might best be implemented by adding vca…

Why not adding a second modwheel?

ooooo great idea, i’ve never seen this before, they would need to be easy to “feel” so you knew which one you were spasticly grabbing…

or how about a joystick?

CutOff and Resonance knobs are too close together.

agree.

The modulation matrix is missing

hehe, was my first reaction in the chat too.

told ya so, f *whack*

also, i’m wondering why the menu controls are on the left. i am not left handed, so no one else should be either…

*whack*

T.K · January 13, 2008, 7:04pm

hmmm, i really like the idea of mono buttons

i wonder if the mixer might best be implemented by adding vca…

An analog mixer would be sufficient

also, i’m wondering why the menu controls are on the left. i am not left handed, so no one else should be either…

Look at other synths - LCD and menu controls are mostly on the left

Best Regards, Thorsten.

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 7:52pm

An analog mixer would be sufficient

it may be a can of worms regarding the patch/ensemble structure,

but vca would be useful for other things and maybe more flexible

and keep the control count down…

if you already gots cvs vca is pretty easy…

Look at other synths - LCD and menu controls are mostly on the left

Best Regards, Thorsten.

all of these are on the right:

kurzweil k2000

roland rd-700

kawai xd-5

mb-6582

quadraverb 2 (hehe ok, not a synth i won’t list the other non-synths)

if you manipulate with your right hand you don’t want it covering the display…

maybe a lot of others menu around with left hand while playing righty?

or maybe you thought i meant where the lcd is on the panel.

i meant where the menu controls are relative to the lcd.

sineSurfer · January 13, 2008, 8:16pm

also, i’m wondering why the menu controls are on the left. i am not left handed, so no one else should be either…*whack*

I am left handed :), and it would make more sense to me if the menu controls and LCD where on the right side, those are the ones you won’t use a lot playing live… also, fine knob tweaks are done better with your natural hand(or whatever is called hehe) so that would place the filter and LFO knobs on the left side for a lefty.

Thinking about this:

If you are playing a bass line you have the right hand free, if playing a lead the left hand is free, so ideally the most used controls should be on the center so you can use whatever hand you have free to tweak the knobs and press the buttons… ergonomics they call it.

btw. you should not be righty, you know!? righties are baaaad *whack*

and just to add some wood to the bonfire

menu controls on the left:

all the korg’s electribes

clavia nord lead

moog phatty

yamaha AN200

TK mbSID!

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 8:19pm

…menu controls on the left:

again, i was referring to which side of the lcd the controls are on, not which side of the panel the lcd is on.

we can talk about that, too of course…

T.K · January 13, 2008, 8:23pm

if you manipulate with your right hand you don’t want it covering the display…

maybe a lot of others menu around with left hand while playing righty?

or maybe you thought i meant where the lcd is on the panel.

i meant where the menu controls are relative to the lcd.

You are totally right, I overlooked this - yes, the menu controls are at the wrong side (for right-hand people)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

nILS · January 13, 2008, 8:36pm

Side-note: Right-handed people are on the wrong side

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I love the way this turns into a productive discussion, so I’ll just point out some general things being talked about here:

sineSurfer: the lines feel too thick against the rest of the design

The design itself (colors of the LEDs, lines, labels) is not final in any way. It’s merely a rough draft to show what the buttons are.

sineSurfer: somehow the envelope buttons location feels weird as they are not related visually to anything else around…

Yes. They’d have to be in the top-most row to fint in with the layout. But there wasn’t any room, so they got shoved down there for now.

TK: my first thought: why are the waveform and ring/sync buttons so dominant?

A good point. We’re a bit torn between really only adding the controls one’ll most likely need live and still having a lot of stuff on there that’s neat for programming sounds. Atm the tendency is to get rid of some of the stuff though.

TK: There is no “Poly” engine, it’s called “Multi” engine (as you can play up to 6 instruments)

Right, this is a typo/temporary labelling issue. It’s fixed in one of the two images already I believe.

TK: The modwheel makes “Knob 1” obsolete.

Yep -> will be removed

TK: CutOff and Resonance knobs are too close together.

I find the spacing (which is the same as on my SID) perfect. But, we’ll take this into account.

TK: The modulation matrix is missing

Nope. It’s been left out. I personally don’t miss it at all It’s being reconsidered though.

Bugfight: suggest adding feedback, which rocks.

Yes. Definitely. Thanks for the pointer, how’d I miss that?

With that in mind - keep going!

bugfight · January 13, 2008, 9:50pm

TK: The modulation matrix is missing

Nope. It’s been left out. I personally don’t miss it at all It’s being reconsidered though.

i think most folks would rather have the mixer than the matrix, if it’s one xor the other…

Echopraxia · January 13, 2008, 10:12pm

Has any one used a yamaha TG 33 synth before? It has a great joystick on it that mixes the four voices of a single patch. It is really fun for live because you can switch/mix between four different sounds as fast as a cross fader. Its great for doing A-B-A-B style tracks. I thought it would be cool to add one by the mod wheel.

seppoman · January 14, 2008, 9:49am

Hi,

just a small update - hope that posting this is ok with you, Nils: yesterday we were discussing and redesigning the whole evening. It’s still no final version, still thinking about a mixer (or at least volume pots as a full mixer with pan etc would need too much space) etc. So just to show you another variant:

http://schickt.de/temp/iwannahavethat56.png

S

nILS · January 14, 2008, 12:38pm

Just a quick updated to what’s happened there up to the image linked above:

* added the matrix (there ya go bugfight and TK)

* added feedback (thx bugfight)

* fixed “Banstick” typo (thanks sineSurfer)

* got rid of several buttons

* added switch to turn on/bypass external filter

* encoders are now equidistant and further apart from each other

But we moved along a bit further since last night:

(bigger version: http://www.schickt.de/temp/iwannahavethat59.png)

* moved stuff around

* added volume pots for the 4 pairs of SIDs and merged them with the feedback knobs into a “mixer” section

To generate more panel space we experimented with a 4 octave version (adding ~15cm to the panel width), but found that this leads to an overall size we thought was too big, besides a lot more space -> a lot more controls => stuff is harder to find A quick test render can be found here http://schickt.de/temp/iwannahavethat54.png

Further ideas, comments, questions?

tarzan_boy · January 14, 2008, 12:59pm

this may have been rehashed a bunch in the chats, but I am clueless on this:

what would it take (i mean what parts, modifications, etc) to add the keyboard to the design? Are there sellers that sell just the keys ready for midi projects or are we talking about cannabalizing some (hopefully velocity-sensitive) existing keyboard/midi controller?