I initially intended to build my own complete 32 channel DAW controller for Pro Tools utilizing the NG core. However, I found a much higher quality fader surface for a steal of a price I am integrating now.
These lack encoders, displays, meters and a ‘timecode’ read-out… all of which I am hoping to build and add to the exsisting surface myself.
Im hoping someone could shed some knowledge on what parts I would need in addition to the NG core to complete this project.
For 32 channels, what is the max # of leds I could program for VU meters, per channel?
32 encoders, and 32 displays (preferably SSD1306)?
I now have 4 JL Cooper ES/-100 control surfaces and a JL Cooper MCS3 transport surface. They all terminate to RS-232 connections, but I’ve converted to MIDI and reprogrammed where it was needed to function with Pro Tools properly.
well im not so shure in this. I think it shold be possible for MBHP_NG to assign 16 LEDs.
you will have to try.
Im asking my self how to get to the Data of Metering. I thought that the Protocol supported through ProTools does not provide Metering..? Are you using Midi ore RS232 (somehow???) in ProTools?
I am not sure of how to get external metering via pro tools either. This is where I hope for assistance.With the ES/8-100 I am converting RS232 to MIDI using Hairless Serial>Midi program. From there, I am using MidiOx to change the values to something Pro Tools recognizes. I have moving faders, mute solo and select functioning properly within Pro Tools with the existing surfaces.
Control 24, C24 and Pro Control interfaces all have meters per channel… so how can we make our own to work the same way?!
you would need some documentation for these surfaces which contain the sysex implementaion (assuming the meters are transported via sysex). Once you have this, you can set up a receiver event inside MB_NG that can get the sysex events and “translate” them into led or lcd events. I know, this is possible for the Mackie Protocol.
I don´t know if there´s a public “implementation chart” available for control 24 though, you might need to reverse engineer this, if you can get your hand on one of those surfaces.
Here you can find a conversation on the Reaper forum regarding this topic. I don´t know, how far they have come, but it might be worth a look.
Well, those “controll” Surfaces are actualy also Soundcards. So they have a direct Audio-Stream and those meters can be activated by Audio directly in the controller.
Even when the metering data is distributed on LAN. the Protocol described in the Link of JohnE.Finster is Layer 2 so OSC isn’t (please correct if false…) a option as well. You wold need to write your own driver on top of a midibox core…
On the last page of that topic you can read that several guys tried to get the EuCon Protocol to make their own thing but didn’t even get an answer. Avid owns the protocol and keeps it secret it seams…
As far as I understand… the Pro Control is just that. A controller. There aren’t any actual I/O on that surface. However there is still metering. Another surface, Icon Pro… can interface with Pro Tools and also has metering. I wonder how they managed to get it working.
A possible compromise in this case could be combining different protocols.
I don´t have Protools, but I believe, it also supports Mackie Protocol. It might be possible to attach a (MB_NG-) meter bridge to your faders which is driven with Mackie Protocol. There might be issues to work out if you want to sync both “elements” (e.g. fader bank switching,…). But as said, I don´t know Protools and its possibilities on that area. I guess you will have to set up a lot triggers and translations e.g. with midiox and others, but so far as I understood, you are already doing this to get your faders going.
How can your Fader boxes be connected to your daw?
What kind of protocol are you using now? Are there other (midi based) protocols inside Protools you could exploit?
Novski is certainly right about Avid, they´re a pretty uncommunicative bunch when it comes to their products. The only possibility one has to get behind the curtains is to reverse engineer their gear. But even then I believe there are technologies involved, which can´t be emulated with a Midibox Controller.
I believe so, yes, using the Mackie Protocol from Klinke. But I´m not completely there yet.
I was able to display the meters on my ssd1306 displays and generally they work, but there are a few things I have to work out before I could say, they´re completely usable.
The problem seems to lie inside the Mackie Plugin from Klinke. Normally (with the MCU) the meters are activated by a sysex string followed by a stream of Note and Aftertouch events to transport the meter values. I was able to reproduce the stream, so my meters are “twitching”, but I´m still missing the proper sysex string. Same goes for the MTC display, btw.
As I said, I believe it´s doable, but there has to go a bit more work into it.
Pro Tools 10 (and 11 I would imagine) has protocols for Command8, HUI and Motormix. I chose HUI for now but willing to work with any others if it means getting metering.
(sorry, I had to put my grammy into a hospital last night…again… so I´m a bit exhausted. Ok, back to topic!)
I don´t know about the command8, but the others, HUI and Motormix, are documented.
With HUI you might be able to set up…:
vu-meters -> transported by a key aftertouch event which could be recognized by a MB_NG and translated into a led or lcd event.
encoders, switches, led-rings -> they´re all continous controller events which can be assigned by MB_NG
2x40 lcd display -> for displaying fx parameters (like HUI), sent within a sysex stream which could also be recognized by MB_NG and displayed on a lcd.
With Motormix you might be able to set up…:
2x40 lcd display -> track names, also sent within a sysex stream.
encoders, switches, led-rings -> like HUI
You could combine both protocols into one “midibox bar” to attach to your fader boxes. HUI could give you metering and Motormix could give you LCDs with track names,…
I recommend you monitor the midi output of all 3 midi protocols (from command8, too) to see, what and how controller information is transported (this can differ from daw to daw). You already know Midiox, which is an excellent tool for that. Just connect the midi out of protools midi protocols to midiox (via LoopBe or other virtual midi cable) and record the output. If everything is alright you should able to see note/controller/aftertouch/sysex commands from protools, which we can interpret and maybe emulate.
A word of caution to this tale…(my kid loves that disney Hercules movie…)
Everything I wrote here is considered hypothetical. I got similar stuff to work with my boxes, but of course I can not guarantee that any of this will work in your case. Especially, since I don´t know Protools and its potentials.
Since you´re focused on meters I´d like to add another comment. Midi-driven meters are never that accurate as audio-driven meters or those you see on the screen of your laptop/pc/mac…whatever. They can be (rough) indicators of what is going on, the whole meter length is roughly divided into 11-13 sections and they have a noticeable latency. If you´re looking for professional and precise meters, a midicontroller is might not be the solution.
Then again, I am really tired right now, so if any of what I just wrote doesn´t make any sense, please bear with me :ahappy: .
my regards
P.S.: If you can give me some time, I could test the metering feature of the HUI protocol within Reaper (IF it supports metering) and report back.
True. I read about that once and coldn’t follow. Do you know how it handles those 14bit (214=16384)? Because 27 means 128(?). My Display always counts from 0 to 127 max / top. how high is the transmitted resolution over midi really?
Yeah, it´s kinda interesting. I had to look twice a the midi input monitor of Mios Studio to get it :happy: .
If you choose Motormix emulation and look at the direct output of the MF module in Mios Studio you can see two CCs instead of one when you move a fader. So that´s how 14bit resolution is generated. (CC a) x (CC b) = 128 x 128 = 16384 = 14bit!
With the regular pitchbend mode or the mackie/logic emulation mode there would only be a 10bit resolution available.
