DIO Matrix going haywire

Highcooley · September 20, 2015, 12:01pm

Hey fellow midiboxers

I start feeling bad, always coming with more problems instead of solutions. But another unsolved mystery in my Midibox_NG (next to operating more than 2 AOUT_NGs) is an odd behavior of my DIO Matrix.

Basically, it is configured like in the example for 8x16 buttons and 8x8 LEDs. In my configuration, I have a couple of rotary switches configured as OnOnly for the different states as wells as some toggle buttons with included LEDs:

the matrix is wired as follows:

and this is how the configuration looks like:

DIN_MATRIX hardware

DIN_MATRIX n=1 rows=8 sr_dout_sel1=1 sr_din1=1 sr_din2=2 button_emu_id_offset=1001

DOUT_MATRIX hardware

DOUT_MATRIX n=1 rows=8 sr_dout_sel1=1 sr_dout_r1=2 led_emu_id_offset=2001

# EVENTs
#MOD BUS
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1001 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source Tri "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1002 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 25:25 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source Square "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1003 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 51:51 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source OSC 3 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1004 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 76:76 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source S&H "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1005 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 102:102 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source ON/MOD2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1006 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 68 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Source Noise/PGM "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1017 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest Pitch "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1018 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 25:25 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest OSC 2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1019 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 51:51 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest OSC 3 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1020 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 76:76 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest Filt "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1021 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 102:102 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest Wave "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1022 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 69 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Dest LFO Rate/PGM"

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1033 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 70 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Shaping Filt "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1034 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 70 range= 48:48 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Shaping Velocity "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1035 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 70 range= 80:80 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Shaping Pressure "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1036 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 70 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="MW Shaping ON/PGM "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1037 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 73 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Shaping Filt "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1038 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 73 range= 48:48 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Shaping Velocity"
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1039 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 73 range= 80:80 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Shaping Pressure"
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1040 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 73 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Shaping ON/PGM "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1049 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source Tri "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1050 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 25:25 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source Square "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1051 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 51:51 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source OSC 3 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1052 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 76:76 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source S&H "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1053 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 102:102 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source ON/MOD2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1054 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 71 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Source Noise/PGM"

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1065 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest Pitch "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1066 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 25:25 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest OSC 2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1067 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 51:51 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest OSC 3 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1068 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 76:76 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest Filt "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1069 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 102:102 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest Wave "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1070 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 72 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Ped Dest LFO Rate/PGM"

#OSC
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1009 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 64:64 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 32 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1010 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 65:65 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 16 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1011 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 66:66 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 8 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1012 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 67:67 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 4 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1013 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 68:68 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1014 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 74 range= 69:69 fwd_id=SENDER:3001 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 Octave 1 "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1025 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 64:64 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 32 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1026 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 65:65 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 16 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1027 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 66:66 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 8 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1028 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 67:67 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 4 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1029 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 68:68 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1030 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 75 range= 69:69 fwd_id=SENDER:3002 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 Octave 1 "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1041 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 64:64 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 32 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1042 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 65:65 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 16 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1043 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 66:66 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 8 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1044 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 67:67 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 4 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1045 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 68:68 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 2 "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1046 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 76 range= 69:69 fwd_id=SENDER:3003 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 Octave 1 "

#LFO
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1007 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 67 range= 0:0 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="LFO Sync OFF "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1008 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 67 range= 48:48 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="LFO Sync MIDI "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1015 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 67 range= 80:80 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="LFO Sync KB "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1016 type=CC button_mode=OnOnly chn= 1 CC= 67 range= 127:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="LFO Sync Env Gate "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1057 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2025 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 65 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Glide ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1058 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2026 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 77 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="1-2 Sync ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1059 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2027 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 78 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="3-1 FM ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1060 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2028 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 90 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="5Pulser ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1061 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2029 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 95 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="2-3 Ring ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1062 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2030 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 79 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="3 KB Cont ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1063 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2031 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 80 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="3 Freq ^highlow "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1073 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2033 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 91 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Pulse 3 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1074 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2034 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 92 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Pulse 5 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1075 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2035 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 93 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Pulse 7 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1076 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2036 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 94 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Pulse 9 ^onoff "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1081 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2041 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 81 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="External Audio ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1082 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2042 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 82 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 1 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1083 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2043 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 83 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 2 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1084 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2044 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 84 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="OSC 3 ^onoff "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1085 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2045 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 85 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Noise ^onoff "

EVENT_BUTTON id= 1086 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2046 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 86 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Filter Mode ^filmode "
EVENT_BUTTON id= 1087 type=CC fwd_id=LED:2047 button_mode=Toggle chn= 1 cc= 87 range= 0:127 lcd_pos=1:1:4 label="Env Gate ^envgate "

If I reboot the midibox, all buttons and LEDs work as intended. But after a couple of button presses, suddenly two strange things happen:

Rotary switches start to lock each other out. If one switch is in position green on the matrix table, the same position in terms of DIN row of other switches is not registered any longer.
Switches trigger all button events in the same row (e.g. the ones marked yellow in the matrix table). One small detail is that if this happens, the LEDs of the corresponding buttons are getting brighter, the more switches of this row are in the actual ON position. For example, if ID 1009 suddenly starts to trigger ID1025. 1041, 1057 and 1073, LED 2025 and 2033 switch on. If the second rotary switch is set to the position wit the ID1025, the LEDs 2025 and 2033 get brighter. If I toggle on button 1057 (pressing and releasing it), both LEDs 2025 and 2033 even get brighter. In reverse, if I toggle buttons off, the LEDs get dimmer again. You can actually see differently bright lit LEDs in the picture I took of the front panel mockup.

Now what could the actual problem behind this behavior be? What is strange is, that everything always works after rebooting and suddenly starts, after I pressed a couple of buttons or did a couple of switches. Can it be some capacitive behavior of the ribbon cables I used to connect the switches (some are up to 40cm long) which builds up over time? Or could it have something to do with the fact that the rotary switches trigger one of the 4 to 8 switches in every scan (some kind of stack overflow)? What do you think I could try to get closer to a solution?

I appreciate your thoughts and hints regarding this behavior.

Best regards and a happy weekend

Andy

T.K · September 20, 2015, 6:18pm

Hi Andy,

long cables between DIO_MATRIX and buttons/LEDs shouldn’t cause a big problem, but it’s important that the cable between CORE and DIO module is as short as possible (typically 10cm and not more than 20 cm), otherwise random things can happen due to transfer failures to the shift registers.

If this isn’t already the reason, I would recommend two strategies:

SW side: reduce the configuration and check if the problem comes up again. E.g. remove all parts from a matrix row, and/or from a matrix column
HW side: disconnect cables from a row or column

Best Regards, Thorsten.

P.S.: I assume that the 1N4148 diodes have been soldered for all buttons/switches, because without them one switch could influence the other switches of the same row

latigid_on · September 20, 2015, 8:43pm

Hi Andy

Just a quick thought: can you measure the PSU voltage at the Core and at your secondary board? It’s possible to get some strange behaviour if it so happens that Vcc is pulled down below a certain level.

FantomXR · September 21, 2015, 6:11pm

Hi Andy,

a short question if you don’t mind: Where do you have the layout from (text, symbols, etc.)? I’d be interested in that

Highcooley · September 22, 2015, 8:52pm

Hey guys

Thanks for your suggestions.

@Thorsten:

The serial cable length is below 10cm. If I take a 20cm long one, nothing changes in the behavior.
I tried to reduce the config to only 15 toggle buttons, but that won’t change anything. A couple of button presses and suddenly they influence each other again, where before they work individually.
On the hardware side it gets a bit trickier, since all buttons are soldered to the distribution board. The only thing I know is, that the same problem occurred ever since I assembled my front panel, when I only had the rotary switches connected before the toggle switches.
Jup, 1n4148s are all good.

@latigid on: I measure 5V with +/-400mV noise from the CPU. Should I be worried about the noise? I tried attaching an additional larger cap, but that didn’t help with noise of course. Supplying extra 5V won’t help unless I would cut the connection to the processor board.

@FantomXR: It’s a print screen out of the Moog Voyager Synth PDF manual. Horrible resolution, but a start to get the front panel together I am currently redesigning the layout in inkscape which is a freakin pain in the butt since lines get misaligned frequently and I didn’t manage to get nice concentric scales around the buttons (the nice plugin for exactly that which I found online doesn’t work with my installation).

I’m still not happy about the fact, that the config always works fine after a reboot for a couple of button presses. Any other idea how to nail this?

Cheers

Andy

T.K · September 22, 2015, 9:26pm

The 0.4V noise is unusual, but shouldn’t cause a problem.

However, another possible reason could be, that you forgot to stuff Jumper J6 to select the pull-ups, and/or that there is a problem with the pull-up resistors (see schematic: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dio_matrix.pdf )

This hint might sound strange for you, but I learnt that sometimes it makes sense to mention even the obvious things: ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Highcooley · September 24, 2015, 10:11pm

Alright, a little step closer:

J6 is set correctly, the pull-up resistors are the right value and solidly solderd and I also checked J27 which is fine as well (also the signal itself, not just the jumper).

But what I figured out is, that if I feed both 5V and GND directly from the PSU to the board, the fault happens much less (which means it does happen but much later). Also the noise level on the 5V rail lowers from +/-400mW to +/-60mV. But still, it does happen far too often. Also, if I connect my scope to the rail at the board, it happens more often. I soldered some 100uF cap and a 1000p cap to the board which unfortunately did not help at all. But it even gets more mysterious. If I turn AINSER64 pots, I can provoke the fault as well, which never happened before. Of course, the wires of these pots cross the button wires at some point, which won’t be possible to avoid.

Well, I am a bit lost here with this mystery.

FantomXR · September 26, 2015, 7:51am

Maybe you could provide a few pictures of the board which contains the switches, LEDs and stuff! That might be helpful.

Highcooley · September 26, 2015, 12:47pm

You’re right…here is what we are talking about:

Marked red is the DIO Matrix board close to the processor right below (8cm ribbon). Then green is the distribution board which is connected with two 20cm flat flex cables and orange is another 20cm flat flex with three LED push button boards (two mounted on the front panel and the one with visible buttons floating). In the back you can see the rotary switches also connected to the distribution board and the smaller parts are pots connected directly to the AINSER_64.

Ignore the other ribbon cables in the lower part of the image. These are temporary CV connections of the analog section. I don’t think they can be causing interference, since the CVs are all static voltages from the AOUT_NGs so far (no modulation yet). The audio path is running through shielded cables.

I know, the front panel cabling is a terrible mess, but so far I don’t see a better solution for parts mounted such far away from each other. Everything will be tidied up with cable ties in the end, but that won’t help if the cables of the DIO and the AINSER scanning matrices are even closer together. Since the front panel is over 60cm wide, PCBs won’t be a good solution to connect the parts either.

Cheers,

Andy

FantomXR · September 27, 2015, 1:43pm

You use an LPC-core? Is that right?
And what do you mean by distribution-board?

BTW: Which kind of buttons do you use? They look great.

Highcooley · September 27, 2015, 2:56pm

Yes, it’s an LPC17. I run two 20cm long flat flex cables from a DIO-Matrix module to a veroboard at the front pannel (distribution board). From there, I wired the different matrix strands.

The buttons are TC011s which I described here a while ago:

Meanwhile I can say that the quality is quite decent.

Cheers,

Andy

T.K · September 27, 2015, 4:17pm

Please do following test before we continue with software based troubleshooting: once the circuit becomes unstable, enter the “reset” command in MIOS terminal -> is the circuit stable again, or does it stay unstable?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Highcooley · September 27, 2015, 8:40pm

Please do following test before we continue with software based troubleshooting: once the circuit becomes unstable, enter the “reset” command in MIOS terminal -> is the circuit stable again, or does it stay unstable?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Hey Thorsten

Good point. Yes, it does get stable again when I reset via the terminal.

One new finding is, that if I disconnect the AINSER64 from J19 of the Processor board and the AOUTs subsequently, I cannot provoke the error on the DIO-Matrix anymore regardless of whether or not I have the DIO-Matrix supplied separately from the PSU or not. The scope shows the same noise of +/-60mV at the 5V rail. I checked, if the problem also occurs if the AINSER is connected without the AOUTs and the answer is yes. So the question arises if this is a software bug which only happens if AINSER64 is connected or if it has something to do with interference from the AINSER64 scan cables. But even if I turn a pot which is on a strand 20cm away from the DIO-Matrix cables, the problem still occurs. If I disconnect the scan cables of the AINSER64 which cross my DIO-Matrix cable, and the processor goes into unlimited value change scanning at these lines, the error of the DIO-Matrix occurs instantly. One last thing I can test is if the error can be provoked if I disconnect the crossing lines but also ground these inputs in order to not having value changes at these inputs all the time.

Find the whole config file. Maybe there is a clue about the problem in there:

[default.ngc](< base_url >/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=12191)

Thanks guys for bearing with me and best regards,

Andy

T.K · September 28, 2015, 5:34pm

Hi Andy,

meanwhile I’ve an idea under which conditions this behaviour could be observed (although I’ve no idea how this could happen with your configuration): if a LED (DOUT) function overwrites the pins at DOUT #1, D7..D0, the matrix row selection pattern would be falsified so that a single row could trigger multiple button events, and turn on multiple LEDs of the same row.

In order to check if this hypothesis is the reason for the problems, I added a new debug command “show douts”, which should output:

[351689.954] Page 0: 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
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[351689.978] Page 28: f7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[351689.979] Page 29: fb 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[351689.979] Page 30: fd 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[351689.981] Page 31: fe 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

So, we’ve 32 pages which are cycled with each SRIO update, and the first column (which corresponds to a matrix row) shows the output pattern of the SRIO cycle.

We should see 8 times the sequence 7f bf df ef f7 fb fd fe (which is nothing else than a running-zero, here the binary representation: 01111111 10111111 11011111 11101111 11110111 11111011 11111101 11111110)

Could you please run following firmware version:
http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_ng_v1_033_pre11.zip

Wait until random events are triggered, and then enter the “show douts” command.
Check if you see four times the value sequence that I explained above, if you notice a different value please let me know
(Note that MIOS terminal output can be copy&pasted, just select multiple lines and right-click on the lines)

Additional experiment (now considering more the HW side):

What happens if you disable the AINSER (configuration) command, what happens when you disable the AOUT (configuration) command, what happens when you disable both?

And last but not least: do you have a .NGR file, and what is the content?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Highcooley · September 28, 2015, 8:22pm

As soon as the error occurs, I get:

[523254.412] Page 0: 6f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.412] Page 1: af 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.414] Page 2: cf 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.414] Page 3: ef 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.416] Page 4: e7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.416] Page 5: eb 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.418] Page 6: ed 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.418] Page 7: ee 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.419] Page 8: 6f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.419] Page 9: af 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.421] Page 10: cf 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.421] Page 11: ef 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.423] Page 12: e7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.423] Page 13: eb 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.424] Page 14: ed 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.426] Page 15: ee 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.426] Page 16: 6f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.428] Page 17: af 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.428] Page 18: cf 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.428] Page 19: ef 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.430] Page 20: e7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.430] Page 21: eb 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.432] Page 22: ed 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.432] Page 23: ee 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.434] Page 24: 6f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.434] Page 25: af 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.436] Page 26: cf 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.436] Page 27: ef 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.436] Page 28: e7 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.438] Page 29: eb 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.438] Page 30: ed 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[523254.439] Page 31: ee 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

before that, all is well. I used this command several times when I had the error with the same sequence. I’m wondering how this zero gets to the fifth position of the string. But of course, all is off afterwards.

Also, if I disable AINSER, the error never occurs. Also with AINSER and AOUT. But with AOUT off and AINSER on, I have the problem regularly. So it’s the AINSER command which seems to have something to do with the problem.

I didn’t have a .NGR but now do have one with the following in it:

if ^section == 0
  exec_meta RetrieveAinserValues
  exec_meta DumpSnapshot
endif

…since I accidentally had it in the .NGC which didn’t work of course. Unfortunately this also doesn’t initialize the Ainsers somehow. So I have to turn each knob once to initialize it until I can test the synth.

Cheers

Andy

T.K · September 28, 2015, 9:01pm

Ok, we are coming closer to the root cause!

Next tests with AOUT and AINSER enabled

remove the fwd_id=CV:x statements from EVENT_AINSER - problem still occurs?
remove the fwd_id=LED:x statements from EVENT_BUTTON - problem still occurs?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Highcooley · September 28, 2015, 9:16pm

I can’t follow you at the moment, but did the tests anyway

removing fwd_id=CV:x gets rid of the problem

removing fwd_id=LED:x doesn’t

both removed solves the problem as well of course

Best Regards,

Andy

T.K · September 28, 2015, 10:57pm

Thanks! For me it’s clear now (although it’s still a hypothesis - I haven’t doublechecked yet - but I’m very sure ;-):
it seems to be related to a software bug indeed!

EVENT_AINSER forwards the value to CV; the AINSER event has some custom flags:

struct {
    u16 ain_mode:4; // mbng_event_ain_mode_t
    u16 ain_sensor_mode:4; // mbng_event_ain_sensor_mode_t
  } AINSER;

and CV has some custom flags as well - they will be shared with the same variable:

struct {
    u16 fwd_gate_to_dout_pin:9;
    u16 cv_inverted:1;
    u16 cv_hz_v:1;
    u16 cv_gate_inverted:1;
  } CV;

You are using a special ain_mode in your configuration: parallax.

The corresponding value for this mode is 4

From MBNG_CV_NotifyReceivedValue():

if( item->custom_flags.CV.fwd_gate_to_dout_pin ) {
        if( debug_verbose_level >= DEBUG_VERBOSE_LEVEL_INFO ) {
          DEBUG_MSG("-> Setting DOUT Pin #%d=%d\n", item->custom_flags.CV.fwd_gate_to_dout_pin-1, gate_value);
        }       
        MIOS32_DOUT_PinSet(item->custom_flags.CV.fwd_gate_to_dout_pin-1, gate_value);
      }

Which means: custom_flags.AINSER.ain_mode=4 will turn into custom_flags.CV.fwd_gate_to_dout_pin
And therefore MBNG_CV_NotifyReceivedValue() could set DOUT pin 1.D3 to 0 under certain cirumstances (value=0), with the result that the row selection pattern will be influenced!

Now I’ve to find a way how to handle the shared custom_flags for the case that values are forwarded.
Currently I think that it’s safe to clear the flags before forwarding under the assumption, that the receiver will handle them as “passive”.

Could you please check this “blind” (untested) change?
-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_ng_v1_033_pre12.zip

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Highcooley · September 29, 2015, 7:21pm

Hey Thorsten

Unfortunately, the pre12 didn’t have the expected effect and I still get the same scanning sequence. But you are definitely close. I changed all the ain_modes to “direct” and repeatedly get the following sequence as soon as the error occurs:

[607193.357] Page 0: 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.357] Page 1: 3f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.359] Page 2: 5f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.360] Page 3: 6f 42 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.361] Page 4: 77 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.361] Page 5: 7b 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.363] Page 6: 7d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.363] Page 7: 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.365] Page 8: 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.365] Page 9: 3f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.367] Page 10: 5f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.367] Page 11: 6f 42 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.369] Page 12: 77 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.369] Page 13: 7b 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.371] Page 14: 7d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.371] Page 15: 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.373] Page 16: 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.373] Page 17: 3f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.375] Page 18: 5f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.375] Page 19: 6f 42 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.377] Page 20: 77 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.377] Page 21: 7b 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.377] Page 22: 7d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.379] Page 23: 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.379] Page 24: 7f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.381] Page 25: 3f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.381] Page 26: 5f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.383] Page 27: 6f 42 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.383] Page 28: 77 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.385] Page 29: 7b 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.385] Page 30: 7d 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
[607193.386] Page 31: 7e 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Changing back to parallax results in the old wrong sequence again.

I hope, these info helps for further debugging.

Best Regards,

Andy

T.K · September 29, 2015, 8:01pm

Thanks for testing!

This one should work better: http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_ng_v1_033_pre13.zip

I noticed that I’m able to test the forwarding by myself from the terminal w/o special hardware by entering “ngr trigger AINSER:1”
I knew that sooner or later this command could become useful

Best Regards, Thorsten.