Around dial function button

MIDIbox SEQ
1

Hello,

As i’m disabled, i mainly use the seq v4+ in lying position.

However some of the most important around dial function need to be hold and a second hand is needed for selecting track.

I was wondering if it would possible to add in the option a page where it would be possible to select if the button has hold or down mode.

Furthermore the top would able to configure via this page the function of this button for hold, un hold or just down button.

For example track button normal behavior when hold is select track by pushing the corresponding one, but after holding it goes to the step page which display note without any purpose, but you select the track by bottom row!

Why note but the display confuse me with step edit so most of the time i think i’m on step edit where i’m in the unhold page of track.

So for me the less confusing would be a down mode but with the hold page and no hold page.

Same for params where the down page is less confusing than the hold one, so only down with down page would be required for this.

I think i would be an excellent option upgrading the flexibility and disabled people more easy use.

Thanks a lot,

Have a good day,

Rgds,

2

In the HW setup file there is a section to configure a number of buttons as either momentary or toggle.  Perhaps this can help you customize a bit to your liking.

3

More than 30 years ago I created custom hardware devices for disabled people to support computer interactions, therefore I can fully understand you and I’m willing to support whenever it can be done with meaningful effort (and low risk to break existing functions)

As srmaietta wrote some button behavior can be customized in the MBSEQ_HW.V4 file, but not all - especially not the special functions introduced for the MIDIphy front panel. This could be added

In addition I understood that there should actually be following behavior, let’s take the Track button as an example:

  • pressing once: Track selection (like if we would hold the Track button today)
  • pressing again: switch back to original page, Track selection still in lower GP row

Correctly captured?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

4

The issue with the toggle setup is that it does not resolve issue with not used page!

For example, step button toggle, will switch between a graphical step view, and the step edit!

Frankly the graphical view is useless for me, i don’t any interest of seing graphically the steps, because bottom row show already where you are in the pattern by 16 step, plus the upper row the actual step reading!

So actually it flash graphical view and after step view which is very annoying!

So if use only toggle setting, it will be a mess, because i will have to toggle many time to select step!

Furthermore, the thing has to be edited into a file etc, for that type of option, i think it isn’t the right place!

An option to say :

For Step button two view mode On/Off, Two view mode type (toggle/hang), and Single page view type would make configuration a way more flexible and on the fly!

Of course if two view mode off, two view mode type will not be effective, just the single page view type!

It’s the same thing with track, where the view choice is more arguable, but i think the most usable for me is the one switching bottom row from step part select to track select, then i just push back step to switch bottom row back to step part select!

Same for param the one with note vue meter and so on, just annoying, so i would prefer it like this:

Step button, i edit

Param, i change the layer from bottom button

etc..

Track button, i change the track from bottom button

Step button, i edit

all with just a push so each one would show only one view with no flashing or toggle of the not wanted one!

An incredible speed up in pattern making, also a way more less flashing screen, and far less complex button management!

5

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6

The two other ins and layer i haven’t used them yet but it is also valid for them.

For bookmark, there is only one view, so i suppose the config file should do the job.

Phrase/song mode has two view, so it would require same mode as other.

Here there is a big issue, because phrase=song button + shift = hold view for the two!

7

I guess that you are still in the thought process, but if I understand you correctly, it’s sufficient to simply avoid that these buttons switch to their corresponding pages. Instead the 2nd GP row should just take over the selected function.

Here a trial which can be extended based on feedback: http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_098_pre9.zip

In your MBSEQ_HW.V4 file, add following setting at the bottom:

################################################## # Special Behaviour of some selection buttons of # the Antilog Frontpanel (to be documented...) # 0: default behaviour # 1: simplified behaviour ################################################## BUTTON\_BEH\_SIMPLIFIED\_ANTILOG\_FRONTPANEL 1

This will set seq_hwcfg_button_beh.simplified_antilog_frontpanel and I inserted a condition at some places, see:

https://github.com/midibox/mios32/commit/279a0e391f858a06e3409c7783d104ad5b2d1cd2

Please let me know if this goes into right direction.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

8

Hello,

Many thanks, it comes in handy, i just left the machine because was to annoyed by the page flipping of all those button.

It’s just day and night for me, again many thanks just so more usable.

Meanwhile i remixed the issue in my head several day, but perhaps the main problem is that there are page more adapted to pattern edit and some page that are more adapted to song playing, like graphical pattern display, or graphical track mute, graphical layer mute , graphical track select etc!

So i thought that perhaps the best way will be that as soon as the edit button is lite, the workflow i mentioned before is applied, and when song mode is lite the graphical page are applied, this will remove forever those hang button behavior, and will make everything more consistent keeping all the page and bringing them as the best moment for their use.

However in whatever your’re in song mode or edit mode, bookmark and phrase button, should have always the same page, with no hang as shift can switch the phrase mode page, but most over song button is exactly the same behavior as phrase mode.

I think that for those two button, the song mode should get to the menu (copy…phrase mode…takeover) whereas the phrase button should engage what is in fact the song configuration layout!

“As the graphical page for step, track select, mute track make all senses, does the param/layer/ins one are really making sense?”

However, I think is the most optimized workflow remaining everything in place while removing hang action on most of buttons!

But if you absolutely think that the default behavior (hang) has any meaning/necessary for compatibility:

In the simplified mode an option so when you lite song button the around dial button show their graphical page (hang one) instead of the the edit one, and the edit button will show the actual behavior.

And why an option, because while it brings all the page back without hang, perhaps some won’t need them!

Rgds,

9

So, let me summarize to check if I understood correctly + some questions:

  • there should be a clear separation between EDIT and SONG mode

    • what about PATTERN and PHRASE mode?

  • Step/Track/Parameter/Trigger/Instrument/Mute buttons should optionally switch to corresponding overview page, but only in SONG mode

    • same behavior in PATTERN and PHRASE mode? Or all optional: optional in EDIT, optional in PATTERN, optional in SONG, optional in PHRASE mode?

  • Step/Track/Parameter/Trigger/Instrument/Mute buttons should permanently and not temporary switch to the corresponding overview page

    • another option? which means overall 8 new options - for EDIT/PATTERN/SONG/PHRASE mode switch or don’t switch to overview page, permanently or temporary

  • currently PHRASE and SONG button have almost the same effect, might get a new function based on the discussion here - but I think that this has to be elaborated further

    • currently EDIT/PATTERN/SONG are just pages, and no permanent modes which change UI behavior
    • SONG and PHRASE are closely coupled, PHRASE is just a song of multiple pieces - are there ideas to differentiate PHRASE from SONG further? (I’m asking because this might affect the UI handling as well…)

Best Regards, Thorsten. 

10

Hello,

  • there should be a clear separation between EDIT and SONG mode

Absolutely, edit page mostly what you did by making all page in step edit view, and graphical view as soon as song button is press.

This will ensure where you re are via the graphical display (song mode) or step edit display (pattern).

  • what about PATTERN and PHRASE mode?

I think we should work in incremental step because there is so much to do and it’s more easy to advance by small step.

So actually Pattern belong to step to edit step views, phrase belong to song so song views!

Don’t read “”“”"  as Next incremental step.

“”“”"This said:  

Pattern button:

If you press pattern button, you are in pattern selection, therefore no button except bookmark should work!

Then you switch back in edit mode or song mode.

Phrase button:

Actually here we’re facing a name issue, phrase is more when you have a block of pattern whose are linked but not corresponding to exactly the song mode!

But phrase mode is blocking pattern chaining!

So what’s the use case of phrase mode in step edit?

  • You switch the bottom row to select one of the 16 slot and it display the first pattern of each slot in current edit!

Also Phrase mode and song mode option in the phrase/song page, what’s the point?

If pattern or edit button, phrase mode is selected automatically, if song mode is press, automatically you’re in song mode.

So the phrase / song mode param in phrase/song page is useless and confusing!

I know that if a pattern change and not saved it’s lost, but that’s another subject, and using phrase mode/song mode option in phrase mode page isn’t the good way, it’s even more confusing:

  • edit pattern

  • switch to song mode

  • edit A1-2 configuration

  • nothing change

  • i need to switch to phrase option to song mode , but phrase mode is song mode, meaning pattern chaining setting!

You see so much to do!

“”“”

  • Step/Track/Parameter/Trigger/Instrument/Mute buttons should optionally switch to corresponding overview page, but only in SONG mode
    • same behavior in PATTERN and PHRASE mode? Or all optional: optional in EDIT, optional in PATTERN, optional in SONG, optional in PHRASE mode?

Pattern belong to step so edit step views, phrase belong to song so song views!

  • Step/Track/Parameter/Trigger/Instrument/Mute buttons should permanently and not temporary switch to the corresponding overview page
    • another option? which means overall 8 new options - for EDIT/PATTERN/SONG/PHRASE mode switch or don’t switch to overview page, permanently or temporary

What, No that’s where small incremental step is much better:

As well as you have simplified mode in the config file (which i think is really not the good way, because not available on the fly), let’s say Full simplified mode (allowing page to change according step edit or song button)

  • SONG and PHRASE are closely coupled, PHRASE is just a song of multiple pieces - are there ideas to differentiate PHRASE from SONG further? (I’m asking because this might affect the UI handling as well…)

Yes we definitively should work on those two button!

Anyway let’s make small incremental step!

Song and phrase graphical display with song button, and actual one on edit button

Rgds,