Another 50 SIDs have arrived!!!!

Fleamarket
1

Hello,

I have found a supplier who has over 100 MOS 8580r5 available. I purchased a lot of 20 to test and I recieved them yesterday. Here are some pictures:

Wilba thinks these SIDs have been remarked, and I trust his judgement, but there is really no way for me to know for sure. I tried to strip them of any paint or ink that may have been used to cover-up the old markings, but there was none. I used mineral spirits, laquer thinner, and a few other strippers that we have at the shop, and not even so much as a stain on my cloth. For me, this means they passed the first test.

When I got home, I tested the osc and filters and they are all working perfectly.

I can’t say for sure that they were or were not remarked, but since they are functionally flawless I plan to buy and sell about 100 of them.

I would like to offer them to the midibox community for $22.50 + shipping. I’m not competing with Wilba, he “haz no moar SIDs” and has given me permission to sell mine on this forum.

Personally I don’t care if they’re remarked or not. I CAN GARAUNTEE that they ARE genuine 8580r5 and each one will be tested before shipping. If you need SIDs send an e-mail to:

djjonnyjams@yahoo.com

Your subject line should say something like “I need SIDs”

the body of your letter should contain your paypal adress, shipping adress, and desired quantity. I will send you a paypal invoice for your chips, and if I have them in stock, they will ship within one business day of recieving your payment. If I am between orders at the time of your payment, I’ll notify you and will ship them within one week.

I already tested, packed, and sold the first twenty. I am currently taking orders and will have more ready to ship by next week.

I am very happy with my chips, I know you will be too.

Thanks

~Jonny Jams

DSC00077.jpg
DSC00077.jpg1024×768 62.1 KB

DSC00078.jpg
DSC00078.jpg1024×768 58 KB

DSC00075.jpg
DSC00075.jpg1024×768 57 KB

2

I’m not competing with Wilba, he “haz no moar SIDs” and has given me permission to sell mine on this forum.

LOL I didn’t “give you permission”… I just said people will buy them even if they are remarked, and IMHO I think they are (old markings are sanded away, see pic) which basically means, someone pulled them out of C64s and made them look new. Personally, I hate that people in the world do this kind of thing, but it’s been done already, so people might as well enjoy these SIDs… they still sound the same… maybe even BETTER because each one was dipped in DOUBLE HAPPINESS!

3

Whatever, at least I asked first… You didn’t say “NO”  :slight_smile:

That’s too bad Wilba, I was gonna send you some free SIDs for your endorsement… (Like you don’t have enough)

-maybe I will anyways, and yours will be triple-dipped!

So, if you don’t have a lifetime supply of SIDs like Wilba, and you’re sick of bidding on commodores on ebay, and paying to have them shipped, and not even knowing if the chip is good, or if it’s even 8580… some nice people in China have done all the hard work for you.

Save yourself the hassle and buy them from me. Yeah they’re probably remarked. Big Deal. Think of them as refurbished or something.  Like the boss says “You want SIDs? I got SIDs”

4

LOL I didn’t “give you permission”… I just said people will buy them even if they are remarked, and IMHO I think they are (old markings are sanded away, see pic) which basically means, someone pulled them out of C64s and made them look new. Personally, I hate that people in the world do this kind of thing, but it’s been done already, so people might as well enjoy these SIDs… they still sound the same… maybe even BETTER because each one was dipped in DOUBLE HAPPINESS!

It could be, but it could be a lie. Chinese electronics engineers are able to copy chips using special chemistry and electronics devices. I have seen many exact copies of controllers with the same program, when engineers had no source files. So if these are made in China - it could be unique, not repainted ones.

5

It could be, but it could be a lie. Chinese electronics engineers are able to copy chips using special chemistry and electronics devices. I have seen many exact copies of controllers with the same program, when engineers had no source files. So if these are made in China - it could be unique, not repainted ones.

My opinion is based on real experience with remarked SIDs and unscrupulous IC brokers. Your opinion is based on wishful thinking. If they could clone SIDs, there would be thousands available, not just a hundred or so, and faked to look like new old stock, they’d be sold as new new stock!

6

Chemistry, no source files? Sounds like magic. Is it like stem cells? Where they take one molecule from a SID and grow new SIDs off of it? :slight_smile:

Wilba, I believe it IS possible to clone SIDs. I don’t think anyone who has the resources to do it understands how valuable that would be. Perhaps we should start a company for research and development.

If man can clone a sheep, a cow, and a 303, surely we can clone a simple IC chip that is 20 years old!

In the meantime, I tested all of the twenty chips I recieved. Only 2 were defective, and the rest performed beautifully. This is a fair enough ratio for me to invest in another 50, which I will have in by the middle of next week.

Peace

~J

7

Wilba, I believe it IS possible to clone SIDs. I don’t think anyone who has the resources to do it understands how valuable that would be. Perhaps we should start a company for research and development.

If man can clone a sheep, a cow, and a 303, surely we can clone a simple IC chip that is 20 years old!

Do you expect a serious answer to that?

8

Wilba, I believe it IS possible to clone SIDs. I don’t think anyone who has the resources to do it understands how valuable that would be. Perhaps we should start a company for research and development.

It it of course possible. the files are here http://sid.kubarth.com/sid_dies.html .

print them out and show them Intel or AMD or whatever company that has the possibility to do that.

“Hey, Intel-guy, could you just make a batch of 1000 SIDs for me?”

The actual demand is just too low to make a profit with that. (It is unfortunately high enough to make money with faked ICs)

9

Do you expect a serious answer to that?

This comment was Satire.

10

*phew* :slight_smile:

11

My opinion is based on real experience with remarked SIDs and unscrupulous IC brokers. Your opinion is based on wishful thinking. If they could clone SIDs, there would be thousands available, not just a hundred or so, and faked to look like new old stock, they’d be sold as new new stock!

Well it may be true, but that operation costs alot. As I have heard, engineers etches the top of the chip, connects wires to special places near the crystal and reads the code, sometimes they use laser, sometimes removes unuseful parts of the chip to get information. As I said, this information is not confirmed :slight_smile: Only head that it costs around 1000EU for simple locked mcu.

12

1,000 euros? That seems cheap. Some of the commodore chips have already been cloned. There was some guy on Lemon64 forum who had replacement chips for (I forget what it’s called, it’s at U17 on a commodore motherboard and they frequently fail and give you rainbow colored characters, CIA maybe?) anyways, he had replacements for that chip, not new original stock, not remarked pulls, but brand spankin’ new, recently manufactured chips. Perhaps they were just a modern chip that emulates the CIA, and fits in the socket. If that’s the case, manufacturing SIDs in this manner would be of no use to the analog purist musicians whom are seeking these chips. What ever happened with SwinSID? I wanted to buy some of those but it doesn’t seem like they’re for sale.

13

Well it may be true, but that operation costs alot. As I have heard, engineers etches the top of the chip, connects wires to special places near the crystal and reads the code, sometimes they use laser, sometimes removes unuseful parts of the chip to get information. As I said, this information is not confirmed :slight_smile: Only head that it costs around 1000EU for simple locked mcu.

The SID is not a simple locked microcontroller.  It is a full custom analog/digital IC, they can’t even change feature size without needing a major redesign.  Even if you do selectively etch away each metal layer to get a full layout of the SID, you’d still need them restart the 20 year old process that they originally used to make the SID to avoid needing a redesign.

A better plan would be designing a SID clone either out of multiple chips (so hobbyist could make it and you wouldn’t need analog and digital in the same chip) or a analog/digital FPGA.

14

Back to the hardware vs. VST argument. If they’re both emulations, I think most would go the more convenient route.

15

If they could clone SIDs, there would be thousands available, not just a hundred or so, and faked to look like new old stock, they’d be sold as new new stock!

Of course you can clone SIDs, what I meant to say was, if these were cloned SIDs , there would be thousands available. They also would have a failure rate of about 1 in 1000.

“They” have been remarking 6581s for a while, but I was pretty surprised when I first saw remarked 8580R5 and 6582A, as they don’t work in SidStation and the only people really wanting these are a fairly small community of SID fanatics (MIDIbox, MSSIAH, Prophet64, HardSID, etc).

16

Surely there must be a way to convert SID station to use 8580? two caps and a 7809 regulator does the trick in our commodores.

17

these chips look very similar to the samples I had from Santion Components. Same font and clear printing. In my case though, they got the date code wrong (8580’s in 1984? lol)  And they were actually 6581 chips, with a 100% failure rate.    Still, not as bad as some of the remarked chips going around with ‘Commodor’ printed on them. lol

In fact, the only company i’ve ever got 100% genuine New-old stock chips is from Parkeli in Hong Kong.

18

LOL… Santion HK is where I got my batch of remarked 8580s… or should I say, 8550…

(that’s the pic I used to convince Santion that they were remarked, but they kept stalling and then said their supplier says it was a “printing error” and they should be fine.

I got burnt on that deal, because I didn’t think they faked 8580 or 6582A. They do. Badly. The few I tested really were 8580 or 6582A and they worked. The 6581 were all dead. Luckily I had someone in China to return them for me personally, but I still lost the shipping costs :frowning:

Santion are now called Taiwan Anprosperous. Next week they might be called something else, though.

19

lol.  You’d think they would be more careful after paying some poor sod in a sweat shop a few pence an hour to sand them down and dip them in some double happiness wouldn’t you?

It’s a shame they don’t realise that they’d do alot better if the chips were just left alone, rather than trying

to ‘refurbish’ them.  So you returned all the 8550R5 chips even though alot of them probably worked ok?  (i can understand why, it just doesn’t seem right if they have incorrect markings on them).

20

Hah, they can’t even spell unprosperous right.