16 MF

Design Concepts
1

Hi there TK

It’s time I used up my motorfaders.

I have been reading hard and have a couple of conclusions…stay with me now :wink:

The LC 18f Thingy will only support 8 MF.

While this is going on there can be no more pot / fader inputs.

This troubles me.

I would like to build a huge desk like mr T’s.

I figure I have two choices for my requirements in Logic.

I build two of the LC units and string them together to get 16 MF

Can this be done like it is with the “bought  one”.

Really I would like to build a desk with all the pans, aux,mute,solo etc buttons just sitting there rather than having to navigate thru a bunch of buttons.

But also be able to control 16MF.

I don’t mind how many cores I have to build to accomplish this. ( Thanks microchip  ) 8)

Suggestions ?

Anyhoo…you have been on the recieving end of your LC for a while now.

How do you find it for navigating etc.

I saw the " bought one" being driven and was impressed with the speed at which the chap functioned.

Your impressions ? Talk me into it !! :wink: :wink:

Thanks for your patience and time TK

2

Hi Ian,

since I noticed that the performance of PIC18F (and MIOS) is much better than expected, my MIDIbox NG is now working with one core module only. This means, that for your desk two cores  modules (instead of 4 like suggested before) are required. One core has to emulate “Logic Control”, the other “Logic Control XT”. And you have to connect the cores to two different MIDI In/Out ports (it’s restricted by the host application, not by MIDIbox itself)

I hope that you also planned the use of rotary encoders? Because these are the most important control elements of the LC!

My impressions: I don’t want to miss it anymore! :slight_smile: Before the LC emulation, the biggest problem with logic was the creation of a perfect control environment for my needs. I never completed it. due to the effort, so I controlled only the volumes and sometimes VSTIs with a MIDIbox.

But with the LC emulation, I can control and automate everything  from the control surface - without an environment - a completely new (and much more efficient) workflow! :slight_smile:

Best Regards, Thorsten.

3

Be still my heart

Questions to come…but you knew that  ;)

Cheers

Ian

4

Hi Ian,

i´m working with a setup of two LC-emus (the “old” hardware with 16F´s) for two month now, and like Thorsten said, i don´t want to miss it either!

But there are some things you have to find out for yourself:

  • i have installed all the buttons for program functions like zoom, marker, nudge etc., but i can´t get used to most of them because i´m much faster with key commands.

  • EVERY parameter from plugs or vstis is written to the lcds in a long row without the possibility to filter out some functions you don´t need. Espacially for EQing i wished i had a more “intuitive” encoder layout like in my favourite EQ (will be UAD Cambridge when it´s finally out…); i´m thinking about making an additional encoder set for this.

  • as i´m mainly using the LC as a mixing console it´s very important to have the tracknames right above the faders, so the 240x64 grafic-LCD is not a good option for me. In the actual state my LC boxes are a little handicapted because i´m using two 2x40 LCDs and therefore i have to do some switching to see ch. 7/8 and 15/16. I hope Thorsten will provide a solution for using two LCs´s on one box… :wink:

As my songs are normally about 15-25 tracks (+ effects. busses etc.) i´m also thinking of expanding my setup to 3 LCs.    

>>Really I would like to build a desk with all the pans,    aux,mute,solo etc buttons just sitting there rather than having to navigate thru a bunch of buttons  

That´s exactly true for me too. It´s most important for getting a good workflow that you don´t have to think about your working procedures.

Best regards, Axel

5

Sorry, should read:

I hope Thorsten will provide a solution for using two LCDs on one box…  

Axel

6

Word…

It’s good to hear from you Axel.

You know my last MB64 was the passive type but I had mute / solo / pan and vol faders layed out also transport buttons.

It was very good to use but the things I missed were  record arm, jog wheel and motorised faders.

Don’t like that mouse  >:(

I did notice that I was slow to find the right fader when using my old box so I can understand your comment regarding the name and values above each track.

Might have to squash those faders right up :wink:

I too am very adept with key commands and it is possible that I may not get to use all the functions on the LC.

“That´s exactly true for me too. It´s most important for getting a good workflow that you don´t have to think about your working procedures”

Well this was the crux of my first post.

I want 16MF. That’s obviously ok if I build the LC and an XT.

But as you point out it would be nice to have the pans etc laid out.

Looks like the 18f will support 8MF each but not concurrent with extra analog inputs as pots for pan etc.

I summise that the best outlook would be to build the LC + XT ( or as many XT as you want ) and then another core + goodies just to run a bunch of extra pots or fader inputs to use as controls for pan / aux /eq etc and drop that into the midi line somewhere.

That way you can have all the aux, pans and eq controls you want ;D But still have the funtionality of the LC.

Your thoughts ?

I’m sure the illustrious “TK The Great” will sort something on the LCD front :wink:

I guess it will all come down a little retraining :-/

BTW do you or TK have a suggestion for getting 3 seperate midi ins into my machine  :o ???

Cheers

Ian

7

I would definitely go with the 8 rotary encoders per LC as you can reach every parameter like pans, sends, effects and vstis with them. Despite mine are in pan position for 90% i´m glad i can do some automation on effects or vstis if i need to.

Dedicated Buttons for solo, mute, channel select are a must, rec enable too if you are recording to many tracks at once (the rumour goes that some people out there are recording BANDS with REAL DRUMS… ;))

Also you should consider one button per encoder (so called v-select if it´s not build into the encoder)

This works perfectly for me except for EQing. For this purpose i don´t want to look at the display or the monitor but concentrate on my ears, so i need to have an encoder/pot layout which is more habtic (i´m sure you know what i mean…). I would take encoders for this purpose too, so you don´t have to break your neck with a soft-takeover environment.

BTW, one the main benefits of LC is the jogwheel, once touched you will never work without it .

>>Looks like the 18f will support 8MF each but not concurrent with extra analog inputs as pots for pan etc. <<

Thorsten said it´s possible to attach all the needed mf´s, encoders and buttons for a complete LC to a single 18F core, but i don´t know how this is done until now as the mf-board is attached to one of the din ports in the “old” design. I don´t think it´s possible to attach analog pots to the LC as this is not part of the LC midi specification.

3 seperate midi-ins?

I have a midisport 4x4, so i never had to think about this. I think it´s the simplest way to get a multiport interface as logic needs a dedicated in/out for every LC.

Axel  

8

Alternatively you could use 2 COM ports and some old second-hand soundcards for additional MIDI In/Outs.

The option for 2 * 2x40 LCDs will be added very soon - I just have purchased the displays at Ebay for a good price (2 for 20 EUR - I can also get 4 pieces for 30 EUR!). After the integration into the LC emulation I will possibly resell the displays to interested MIDIbox users.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

9

Yeah good word on the midi I/O’s

My dell has two serials by default. I thought of some old cards that I have but often they don’t want to play with each other >:(

Here are those questions

Q        I have counted all the buttons on the Logic LC (110 including those built into the encoders )so therefore I should plan my machine based on this number of buttons ? and the same as seen on the XT surface ?

Q        I have the Panasonic MF so will need the touch switch extension. Does this impact on the number of digital inputs ie now increased to 118

Q         I see Axel is using a jog wheel. I presume this can be included now ?

Can you suggest a resolution for this encoder ?

Last one :wink:

Q          Given that Axel and I both want to include a bunch of extra controls for pan etc. On the XT there are needed 48 digital inputs ( buttons, encoders and encoder push switches )

By my reckoning that leaves another 80 inputs that could be used for encoders for our excessive wants and greediness.

Is this ok to do /What are my limits on the XT.

Sorry for what must seem blatantly obvious questions but I have one BIG .dxf to draw and don’t want to put holes where I should’nt.

That should just about do it for questions if you give the right replies :wink: :wink: :wink:

Ooops forgot one…How long are those 2 x 40’s TK ?

Axel…is it a crime  ;D  I have been recording some of these acoustic things you speak of…am I allowed to say this on the midibox forum :o :wink:

TIA  you guys

Ian

1 Like
10

Hey peeps…

Ian - same boat as you as far as the MBLC goes, even got the same panasonic faders and was also wondering about the touch sensor bidness. Encoder wise, i made mine from some old serial mice:

Note: i also used the mouse button housed under the cover (which is off the ball of the mouse ;p) they still need connecting and testing with the din (that’ll be another 50 posts no doubt;p)…

I’m doin more or less an exact clone of the LC itself for my box, here’s my layout:

WRT to (some) of ur q’s: i think u can now have upto 128 digi inputs with the new OS, so it should be cool. The jog wheel wil work too - look at the mblc ini file and all will be revealed ;). 36 is the resolution for the encoders I think, tho the 24 ones from Alps will be dandy i’m sure too - thats what mentioned on the site neways…

peace n dumplins

D

11

Man…let me get hip with what I can have before you get me fussin in that ini / sys nightmare.

My assembly abilities are limited to flashing leds with a 16f84 :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve got my eye on some encoders 32 indent so that’s ok

I was wondering re the res of the jog encoder. Guess the same 32 would be ok.

I like the layout. I will be adding the contents of the XT to that lot as well. Bit of cad to do but nice when it’s lasered.

  • savaloy
12

Hey what’s with this site.

I wrote assembly not disagree…mbly

??? ??? ??? ??? :-/

I tried to modify it  ???

13

Hi Ian,

I noticed that on my footnote text - the guy is called Zvi L_i_f_s_h_i_t_z, look how he’s spelled on the left. I have found no way to cure that behaviour…

ilmenator

1 Like
14

well, I want to build these kind of things too.

I suggest you to see the following site, because this desk is perfect to me, the way the faders and the buttons are put is very efficient for an easy mix.

http://www.mixedlogic.com

check out the EQ section wich is really clever.

It’s put like the EQ of the yamaha digital mixers.

well get inspired of it and the perfect midibox would be a 16MF with EQ on the right…

http://208.178.143.50/colin/mixedlogic/images/m24rightpic_small.jpg

Bye bye

15

The Yabb forum, which is teh one TK uses has an option for censored words . a$$, is one of those, and it is substituted even when it is in assembly! It thinks you say My -ass-embly !!! ;D

16

check out the EQ section wich is really clever.

It’s put like the EQ of the yamaha digital mixers.

I’m also considering building some pots arrangements on my mixiing surface to control the EQ on my 03D Yamaha digital mixer. In fact i’m copying the design of the DM2000 wich has a great look :wink:

take care, RAF

17

He he he …ilmenator…the way it’s spelt is worse than the original ;D

It did’nt change my post the 2nd time :wink:

Mmm…them’s real pretty Damien

Ian

18

Hey Ian,

 I have had 2 SB live’s and one SB awe64 running together without probs. The awe64 cost Aussie$27

 …Steve

btw how’s your box going? did you go for the midibox link option? another question… is it hard to get a standard midi controller mapped to logic’s knobs?

19

Hey there Steve

Well I have never tried to run 2 Sblive’s in the pc.

I have a delta 44 and the live in there.

I get the the Live for $65 nz..nice. ;D

I hav’nt done too much on my LC. Just still gettin my head round the layout  and drawing the .dxf for the laser. I am going to drop a complete keyboard ( pc )

in the thing as well. :wink:

I will be ordering my encoders / buttons etc next week.

Man …that’s a lot of buttons though. Over a hundred at last count !!! :o ;D

Using 4 / 2x40 lcd’s

Be a while yet but I will keep you lot posted.

I’m going to do a mess of PCB’s this weekend and start on one of those multi port midi router’s. Got my sample PICS from Microchip last week…yippee.

There’s plenty to do and make :-/ :-/ hard to know which one to do next ???

Wot about you ?  what you making ? where in aus are you and GO THE WARRIORS  ;) :wink: :smiley:

Ian

20

Hi Ian!

 I have built a midibox 64, and haven’t finished the box yet! but I can’t use it because I have lent it to a friend! An excuse to finish my other half built 'box! :stuck_out_tongue: I’m planning on building a logic control, but I have so many half built projects…even a half built midi studio! BTW, you can get 2*40 displays from oatley electronics in my hometown Sydney for Aus$25 each. Where are you getting the encoders from? which software do you use?

I’d better go and work on some of my half finished assignments…actually, they are all much less than half finished!!

 good luck, from Steve